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I've just been checking out the train times and fares for a trip from Preston to Manchester tomorrow afternoon. If I believe the National Rail Enquiries website it'll cost 2 of us £14.40 each off peak one way and same price for a return.

18 months ago it cost me £7.50 (but I think that was a Saturday) and last Aug it cost me £10.50 return off peak on a weekday.

Are the fares just randomly priced, or have they increased by a quarter in less than a year and almost doubled in 18 months???

I could. of course, go in my car and it would cost about £6 between us as I know somewhere to park free if we walk approx 15 mins.

I've not gone anywhere by train since packing in my job: they used to pay for my travel!

You can travel the length of Israel by train for 8 quid. Really brings it home, that.

Meanwhile, if your car's full, that's not exactly an eco-crime and some people would say it's less Carbon-intensive than the train anyway.

RenewableCandy wrote:I've not gone anywhere by train since packing in my job: they used to pay for my travel!

You can travel the length of Israel by train for 8 quid. Really brings it home, that.

Meanwhile, if your car's full, that's not exactly an eco-crime and some people would say it's less Carbon-intensive than the train anyway.

It averages out at about 1.5 people per car apparently.

... 61 per cent of journeys which were made as the driver of a car were made unaccompanied, 27 per cent were made with one passenger, 7 per cent with two passengers, 4 per cent with three passengers, and 1 per cent with four or more passengers. As a result, the average number of people per car journey was 1.58.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Stati ... rOccupancy

I usually have 2 or 3 each journey because my car is mainly a taxi for my children! Today there would be either 2 or 3 of us on the trip to Manchester.

How many people do you have to have in your car for it to become less carbon intensive than the train? It's an economical car, and I don't drive like a lunatic.

aha but then you have the passenger effect.

the train is going anyway, and you don't really increase its carbon emissions by sitting on it.

as soon as you drive your car out from your house you are creating additional carbon emissions.

still, if you are going anywhere that the public transport network does not cover well, travelling by car is completely understandable, especially with kids!

I heard that unregulated fares are going up a lot at the moment. Does that include off peak?

Eternal Sunshine wrote:Are the fares just randomly priced, or have they increased by a quarter in less than a year and almost doubled in 18 months???

Yes.

goslow wrote:I heard that unregulated fares are going up a lot at the moment. Does that include off peak?

I read the other day that in some areas peak times have been changed, so that trains you could use off peak are now many times more expensive

Eternal Sunshine wrote:I usually have 2 or 3 each journey because my car is mainly a taxi for my children! Today there would be either 2 or 3 of us on the trip to Manchester.

How many people do you have to have in your car for it to become less carbon intensive than the train? It's an economical car, and I don't drive like a lunatic.

There is no simple answer to that one I am afraid.
Cars vary a lot in fuel consumption according to model, how driven, traffic, and weather.
Trains vary even more, with the modern diesel railbuses about the worst.

Also with a train, should one consider simply ones own share of the fuel used by the train ? or should one take take the view that the train was running anyway, and burning fuel, and that only the extra fuel burnt by carrying an extra passenger should be counted.

For example, consider a train with 100 passengers that uses 50 L of fuel, it could be argued that this is 0.5L per person.

OTOH it could be considered that the train was running anyway, and burning 50L of fuel. Carrying an extra passenger would only increase this minutely.
Assume that the empty train weighs 90 tons, and that each passenger weighs 100KG (with luggage) Adding an extra passenger has added 0.1 ton, to an existing weight of 100 tons (train plus the original 100 passengers) This is an increase of 0.1 % in weight.
If one assumes that fuel use inceases in proportion to the weight, 0.1% more fuel will be burnt, which is 0.05L.
In fact the extra fuel used would be even less, since the wind resistance and the energy used for heating, cooling and lighting remain unchanged.
Only the rolling resistance, the energy used in accelerating, and that used to ascend inclines would increase.

I agree though that rail fares are excessive, and in many cases rising at many times the government inflation figures.
Driving is often cheaper than a standard class ticket, first class is becoming comparable with taxi fares.

I live an hours bus ride from the nearest station, so it's not only cost, it's making connections too. I was invited to a BBQ 25 miles away the other Saturday. I could have got there by bus and train, but there are currently no Sunday buses here, and as it was bank holiday weekend (so no Monday buses either), I couldn't have got home until Tuesday!

Bike.

emordnilap wrote:Bike.

It was a long way on dangerous roads for my poor doggy to run beside me. He was invited too .

motorbike and sidecar!

JohnB wrote:

emordnilap wrote:Bike.

It was a long way on dangerous roads for my poor doggy to run beside me. He was invited too .

Dangerous? Have you been harassed or attacked by one?

goslow wrote:motorbike and sidecar!

I raise you one bike and trailer.

A man living not far from here, in the Slieve Aughty mountains, used to cycle to Dublin to play music on RTÉ radio. Roughly 130 kilometres as the crow coughs: subjectively, at least twice that...

emordnilap wrote:

JohnB wrote:

emordnilap wrote:Bike.

It was a long way on dangerous roads for my poor doggy to run beside me. He was invited too .

Dangerous? Have you been harassed or attacked by one?

You're being pedantic again . The nature of the road, and the amount of traffic in places, makes it dangerous for my doggy to be on it, due to the behaviour of car drivers using the road .

I've never ridden a motorbike, and pedalling that distance with the equivalent of a bag of cement in a trailer would probably finish me off. It's hilly in Wales, and I'm not very fit .

Anyway, on the way back from the BBQ I bought several sheets of plasterboard and some timber! I'm sure that will start a lecture on the evils of such materials and visiting B&Q .

A man moved to Leeds and was renovating his house. He needed plasterboard, so off he sets in his van.

Driving around, he pulls to the kerb and asks a passer-by, "Is there a B&Q in Leeds?"

The passer-by replied, "No, but there are two 'D's in Bradford."

Edit for stupid typo.