PowerSwitch

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpres ... hYEQlQxwbA

The most stringent models examined are understood to envisage additional taxes of as much as £3,300 on a new car and a tripling in fuel duty, but a source close to the Commission stressed that these were options, and not favoured proposals.

Trebel petrol tax would be about £10/gallon[/quote]

Would suit me but I doubt it would be acceptable.

Much better to tax the biggery out of high mpg vehicles, set a max speed limit of 55mph and summarily execute anyone caught speeding.

foodinistar wrote:Would suit me but I doubt it would be acceptable.

Much better to tax the biggery out of high mpg vehicles, set a max speed limit of 55mph and summarily execute anyone caught speeding.

I presume that you mean LOW MPG vehicles, or those with high fuel consumption.
Not a bad idea at all, though summary execution is perhaps a little OTT for first offenders, perhaps it should be reserved only for habitual speeders?

I haven't got a problem with green taxes, but I'd like to know exactly where the money was going.

Also, I suspect the taxes would need to be EU wide.

adam2 wrote:

foodinistar wrote:,,,,,,,,

Much better to tax the biggery out of high mpg vehicles, set a max speed limit of 55mph and summarily execute anyone caught speeding.

I presume that you mean LOW MPG vehicles, or those with high fuel consumption........

If we are going to have a speed limit of 55mph it would make sense to stop producing cars which can do more than 55 (or 70mph). That can be done by fitting speed limiters or simply fitting smaller engines.

At present Construction and Use Regulations incorporate a minimum power-to-weight ratio to ensure that loaded lorries don't hold up cars too much. How about a maximum ptw ratio? It would be a lot more use than more green taxes but it won't happen at present. The UK gov't gave away sovereignty to the EU and these things have to be agreed across Europe. The Germans in particular build a lot of high-powered cars and insist their users can kill themselves at high speed.

The Green Fiscal Commission & Blog:
http://www.greenfiscalcommission.org.uk/

The Chartered Institute of Taxation's Green Tax Report 2009:
http://www.greentaxreport.co.uk/

I'd be more inclined to see Green Taxes as a good thing if they were open, honest and seen to be spent on the issue at hand.
Unfortunately that's often not the case in practice.

Road Tax & Petrol Duty are not ring-fenced for improvements to roads & public tansport.
Climate Change Levy & Carbon Reduction Committment monies are not ring-fenced for investment in insulation, renewables etc.
Landfill Tax isn't ring-fenced for waste reduction projects.
etc. etc.

For example, I remember when the CCL was introduced on energy use for businesses. It was sold as being 'Revenue Neutral' - aren't they always.....
In return for introducing the Tax, Employers NI Contributions (totally unrelated to energy use) were reduced by an equal amount (0.3% from memory).
A couple of years later Employers NI Contributions were raised again and the link to the CCL was totally forgotten. Very cute.

As far as I can see, everything goes into 1 big 'pot', so it is very hard to pick-out where OUR tax money is being spent.
This makes the argument for more Green Taxes harder to 'sell', as they end up just being seen as the same as any other tax, but with a 'Green' make-over.

In the UK, and most countries in the world most tax is on labour. Physical resources such as energy and raw materials attract little tax.

This has resulted in optimisation of labour use, with less regard for optimisation of physical resources.

Since resources are scarce and labour is abundant, this situation is dumb.

I'd like to see a transition away from tax on labour and towards physical resources. Then we can let the market optimise resource use whilst affording more labour.

clv101 wrote:I'd like to see a transition away from tax on labour and towards physical resources. Then we can let the market optimise resource use whilst affording more labour.

So would I, but the moves so far to tax resources (eg the CCL) have not seen a corresponding reduction in the tax on labour.
Taxes on labour are in fact increasing - the 10p tax rate has been abolished and the higher rate increased to 50p.

Here's an idea - we introduce a Plastics Tax and charge a rate of £10 million / kg if the plastic is made into credit cards by the *ankers.
That would kill 3 birds with 1 stone.....

Taxes on labour tend to be progressive, but these proposed resource taxes sound regressive.

Green tax proposals 'would increase household energy bills by £800 a year'

Plans put forward by the Green Fiscal Commission (GFC), a Government-supported think tank, would see the tax on gas and electricity rise every year. By 2020, the new levy would amount to 80 per cent of the cost of the average gas bill and 30 per cent of the average electricity bill. The tax forms part of a £150 billion package of proposed measures, including a tripling of fuel duty over the next decade and a tax of up to £3,300 on new cars.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenp ... osals.html

Trebel petrol tax would be about £10/gallon

I wonder what this would do for pay settlements and infrastructure issues / cost implications. ie food delivery, services, jobs. I am sure in the long term it would beneficially lead to more locally sourced foodstuffs and other products. But in the short term it would be reasonably effective as a source of social unrest.

Next...

envisage additional taxes of as much as £3,300 on a new car

This is quite an amusing suggestion considering the gov. have been bailing out the motor industry. Sooo, lets get this right... give a 2000 reduction to help the industry but then change strategy to add 3300??? Duh! Fail.

Joined up thinking

Also of course this will reduce the s/h vehicles. Again, unless a proper transport alternative is provided...

Interesting.

clv101 wrote:In the UK, and most countries in the world most tax is on labour. Physical resources such as energy and raw materials attract little tax.
This has resulted in optimisation of labour use, with less regard for optimisation of physical resources.
Since resources are scarce and labour is abundant, this situation is dumb.
I'd like to see a transition away from tax on labour and towards physical resources. Then we can let the market optimise resource use whilst affording more labour.

Absolutly, IMHO the long term aim should be to eliminate income tax and other taxes on labour, and to increase taxes on energy and raw materials.

A start could be made by indroducing a second, higher rate of VAT at perhaps 50%
This to be levied on goods and services that are needlesly damaging to the enviroment, and for which less damaging alternatives are available.
Examples might include
Incandescent lamps and fittings designed to use them
Disposable batteries
Fridges and freezers with an effeciency rating of "B" or worse
Computers and TV sets that use more than 100 watts
Anything that uses more than 1 watt on standby
Paper goods made of virgin rather than recycled paper
Cars that achieve less than 60 MPG
Air travell
Anything disposable for which reusable alternatives are readily available.

The tax system should also be greatly simplified in order to reduce the costs of tax collection, examples might include

Flat rate income tax on all income from any source over say £20,000.
Abolish national insurance, it does not actually insure against anything but is simply another income tax.

Wages and saleries for governmemt employees should be tax free. Simply reduce the wage rate, such that the take home wage is the same as at present, but saving all the administration.
What is the point of the government paying someone say £28,000 a year and then taking back £5,000 in tax? why not pay £23,000 tax free.

Avoid levying two taxes on the same item, in order to save on administration. For example petrol should be exempt from VAT, simply increase the excise duty so that the retail price remains as now, but with one tax to administer not two. Similar arguments would apply to drink and tobbaco.

Abolish road tax, thereby saving all the costs of administering and collecting it, increase petrol duty to raise the same revenue.

Nah - too sensible - it would put hundreds of thousands of people out of work!

As we all know, population growth is the biggest 'eco' problem of the lot.....
Our Tax System, however, rewards procreation with measures such as Child Tax Credit and Working Families' Tax Credit.

Procreation is also rewarded by the Benefit System with measures such as Child Benefit and prioritisation for single mothers for Social Housing etc.

I guess it would need a brave politician, but perhaps this area requires a fundamental review as well.....???

Mark wrote:As we all know, population growth is the biggest 'eco' problem of the lot.....
Our Tax System, however, rewards procreation with measures such as Child Tax Credit and Working Families' Tax Credit.

Procreation is also rewarded by the Benefit System with measures such as Child Benefit and prioritisation for single mothers for Social Housing etc.

I guess it would need a brave politician, but perhaps this area requires a fundamental review as well.....???

I would tend to agree. Fine, help people in need up to a point. But to prolong that 'need' by endlessly procreating should be discouraged. Does anyone think it's a goer?

Let's face it, it is time that the state considered refusing supports for more than three children, no matter where you're from. Could it stabilise the immigration problem? That is, if you think there's a problem?

It would be a hard one to push through in a predominantly Catholic country like Ireland but needs must. We're looking yet more money being taken out of the lower-paids' earnings in the next budget. Now would actually be a perfect time to raise the issue (hah!) even if nothing is done straight away: get people used to the idea that larger families may not be supported in future, if for no other reason than the state can't fecking well afford it. Hell, I can't afford other peoples' large families, which is what it amounts to.

its just green wash unless it looks at population and to address that you would need to move from a situation where your rewarded for having children to where your taxed .
also you would need to look at immigration , none of this will happen under either conservative or labour as it would be to unpopular .