Are we on the brink of an electric car revolution?

[PS_RalphW]

Bicycles are a commodity item these days. Brits buy the cheapest, shodiest bikes in Europe. Same is true of electrics. Anything make in China or costing less than 1000 will fall to bits in 10 miles.

I spent 1700 on mine, German import. Done over 4000 miles and the electrics are doing fine. I had to replace the speed control microswitch after rain got past the seal. The rest of the bike is suffering a bit - broken spokes, snapped battery mounting, gear shift needs servicing, sheared bolt, that sort of thing, but given the state of UK cycle paths I am not surprised.

[emordnilap]

There is no rhyme or reason the the national distribution of chargers, types of chargers, payment schemes, access methods, anything. It is amazing that it works at all.

Ah, the free market in action.

[emordnilap]

Electrically-driven bicycles. Never quite got my head around those. Last time I was at a place that sold them, there were several overweight people browsing them. In fact, one guy looked around 160/170 kg. He bought one. I wonder what weight he is now.

[fuzzy]

I bet his motor gets a good workout

[adam2]

Electrically-driven bicycles. Never quite got my head around those. Last time I was at a place that sold them, there were several overweight people browsing them. In fact, one guy looked around 160/170 kg. He bought one. I wonder what weight he is now.

Probably a bit less than he was !
These electrically assisted cycles do provide SOME exercise and are to be recommended for those not fit enough for 100% pedal power.

A friend with a heart condition has one on the doctors recommendation. Gentle and moderate exercise, but avoiding any great strain or over exertion is often recommended for minor heart conditions.
Cycling on the level at a modest speed is excellent gentle exercise, with the electric power being used for ascending hills or if greater speed is required.
Cycling along the seafront against a strong headwind is possible with electric assistance but would be an unwise strain without power assistance.

[emordnilap]

Electrically-driven bicycles. Never quite got my head around those. Last time I was at a place that sold them, there were several overweight people browsing them. In fact, one guy looked around 160/170 kg. He bought one. I wonder what weight he is now.

Probably a bit less than he was !
These electrically assisted cycles do provide SOME exercise and are to be recommended for those not fit enough for 100% pedal power.

A friend with a heart condition has one on the doctors recommendation. Gentle and moderate exercise, but avoiding any great strain or over exertion is often recommended for minor heart conditions.
Cycling on the level at a modest speed is excellent gentle exercise, with the electric power being used for ascending hills or if greater speed is required.
Cycling along the seafront against a strong headwind is possible with electric assistance but would be an unwise strain without power assistance.

I'd be a bit harsher and say these things are just more junk; more stuff to 'keep the economy going'; more stuff for made-up wants, as in the quote on another thread, "I am more and more convinced that very few people understand their own choices, and end up being manipulated by those who want to sell them something".

Why not just go for a walk?

[clv101]

Electric bikes have huge potential. In many cases they could replace the 2nd car in a two car household, they make even significant bike rides (10 miles+) totally doable for even the relatively unfit, they do provide decent exercise and they are a lot cheaper (and less paperwork) than a moped.

Unfortunately the UK is pretty bad at most things bicycle related and as such the electric bike industry started off dominated by Del-boy types hoping to earn a quick buck and cheap Chinese rubbish. Things are slowly getting better.

[vtsnowedin]

.....
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The grid has at least 10GW of spare capacity overnight, which would permit of charging huge numbers of EVs without any new generating capacity.
It should however be noted that the marginal fuel for power generation is natural gas and that any extra load is met by increasing gas burning.

If say 1GW of extra EV charging is to be added to the grid, then it would be preferable to add enough renewable generation so as to avoid any increase in gas burnt.....
.......

A point I was thinking about as I was reading the thread that bears expanding on. If a significant number of EVs are being charged off peak they would in effect extend the hours of peak usage and the total KWHs consumed. Some of the possible sources are not available off peak such as solar PV panels and hydro power. I include hydro power because it is already maxed out with all available water flows being run through the turbines during the present peak hours and they need the nighttime off peak to let the ponds fill back up.
So you are correct the Natural gas (imported from Russia or the Middle East) is the marginal fuel that will charge all these plug in EVs.
You certainly can't build a new Nuclear power plant and the existing ones are fully utilized and heaven forbid you build a new set of coal plants. Perhaps someday they will have charging stations smart enough to charge your car when the sea breeze is turning the wind mills mid morning and the solar panels are maxing out but until then your Electric car is really a natural gas car.

[Snail]

Electric bikes have huge potential. In many cases they could replace the 2nd car in a two car household, they make even significant bike rides (10 miles+) totally doable for even the relatively unfit, they do provide decent exercise and they are a lot cheaper (and less paperwork) than a moped.

I'm surprised they're not much much more popular. If I lived and worked in a town/city I'd buy myself a decent one. I recommended one to someone I know in glasgow, but apparently the e in e-bike stands for embarrassment. They're viewed as uncool.

[vtsnowedin]

Electric bikes have huge potential. In many cases they could replace the 2nd car in a two car household, they make even significant bike rides (10 miles+) totally doable for even the relatively unfit, they do provide decent exercise and they are a lot cheaper (and less paperwork) than a moped.

I'm surprised they're not much much more popular. If I lived and worked in a town/city I'd buy myself a decent one. I recommended one to someone I know in glasgow, but apparently the e in e-bike stands for embarrassment. They're viewed as uncool.

As a teenager still too young for a drivers license I soon learned that my home located at an elevation of 1750 feet was incompatible with bike travel as it was too high compared to the village and school five miles away and at 850 feet of elevation. Going down was no problem as long as you had good brakes but those mile long fifteen percent grades going back were a killer only a professional racer with a ten speed could handle. It was easier to just walk it both ways and hitch rides with neighbors as they passed by. Now if I had an electric bike that could handle a seven percent grade I could have gone the longer nine mile route but even that would not have been "cool". I got my drivers license the very first day I was eligible to hold one and have been a free man (except for paying the oil gods money offerings) ever sense.
Most of the UK being a lot lower and flatter should be prime bike territory post oil when getting there matters more then how you look doing it.

[biffvernon]

...and have been a free man (except for paying the oil gods money offerings) ever sense.

Are the birds free from the chains of the skyway, as another American said in the Ballad in Plain D.

A friend of mine, who used to be a partner in his family's car dealership, is now retired from work and car-free. He only has an electric bike and not only uses it for daily local journeys but also goes on holidays on it around Britain.

[PS_RalphW]

Electric bikes now come in all styles, including off-road styles where the battery looks like an oversized water bottle and the motor is either an oversized bottom bracket or an oversized rear hub no bigger than the lowest gear ring. There are even concerns in some cycle racing events that you can now buy e-bikes where the battery and motor are completely hidden, although the power and range are so low as to be little more than an unfair edge in a short range race.

As with all bikes, practical and cool are usually opposite ends of a spectrum, but that is true of many commodities.

[emordnilap]

Electric bikes have huge potential. In many cases they could replace the 2nd car in a two car household, they make even significant bike rides (10 miles+) totally doable for even the relatively unfit, they do provide decent exercise and they are a lot cheaper (and less paperwork) than a moped.

You're assuming people make decisions based upon sound reasoning.

There could be 5 million or more stationary exercise (usually electric) bikes sitting gathering dust in the UK's homes, awaiting scrapping.

[PS_RalphW]

Back to the electric car. Mine has a 24KWh battery and a practical range of 80 miles. My diesel car as a 10 gallon tank, providing 450KWh of chemical energy, with a practical range of 700 miles. My bike has a 0.2KWh battery and a practical range (with me pedalling at 50/50 power ) of 40 miles.

So the bike does 200 miles/KWh - or 100 miles/KWh without me peddling
The EV does 4 miles/KWh (nearer 3 in bad weather)
The (small, efficient ) ICE car does 1.6 miles/KWh (hypermiling ).

Even powered by NG with 50% efficiency the EV uses less energy an produces less CO2. However, the bike is so efficient that it generates less CO2 than the Western style diet I eat to provide the energy to pedal myself the same distance.

[emordnilap]

Back to the electric car. Mine has a 24KWh battery and a practical range of 80 miles. My diesel car as a 10 gallon tank, providing 450KWh of chemical energy, with a practical range of 700 miles. My bike has a 0.2KWh battery and a practical range (with me pedalling at 50/50 power ) of 40 miles.

So the bike does 200 miles/KWh - or 100 miles/KWh without me peddling
The EV does 4 miles/KWh (nearer 3 in bad weather)
The (small, efficient ) ICE car does 1.6 miles/KWh (hypermiling ).

Even powered by NG with 50% efficiency the EV uses less energy an produces less CO2. However, the bike is so efficient that it generates less CO2 than the Western style diet I eat to provide the energy to pedal myself the same distance.

Interesting stats Ralph.

In talking to people about 'getting fit' (usually meaning losing weight) I've often tried to put them off getting a bike of any sort. A bike is way too efficient, as your figures show. If you intend doing 20 kilometres or more a day on it, then go for it. But otherwise an overweight person will just end up disillusioned with cycling, with more Chinese rusty scrap in the shed.

Walking to the gym, then turning round at the door and walking back home is free, more effective and shouldn't create much landfill.