An efficient 4x4?

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 08 Feb 2008, 15:43

stumuz wrote:
mikepepler wrote:I don't deny they're good.
Good this is more like it, if we can start replacing the 'good' with the 'chuffing fantastic' it would make a better superlative.

To be honest they are not the most comfortable things, but I have done 8 hr drives.

If you keep it at 50-55mph you get 30-35mpg, however, at 80mph 15-18mpg.

Maybe you should try this.

stumuz · Post by **stumuz** » 08 Feb 2008, 15:59

No, I don't think Landrew would like that.

Tonight for dinner, I'm having deep fried Pollack fillets in beer batter. In the morning Landrew gets the fish flavoured oil. What is good enough for me is good enough for him!

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 08 Feb 2008, 16:36

mikepepler wrote:
Adam1 wrote:Mike/Tracy - have you looked at keeping your existing car and getting an electric vehicle for the forest work?

http://www.gorillavehicles.com/

Google search "electric off road vehicles"
Nice, but how much are they?
However, they wouldn't fulfil the role of pulling a large trailer to collect/deliver logs/firewood to customers, due to range.

The trouble is so much of this is theoretical - we don't yet need to deliver any wood to people, but on the other hand we're not going to start trying to set up a business doing this without the transport - it has to be in place first.

Any comments on the Freelander from people? It seems to strike a balance between price, efficiency and off-road ability, but I've never been in one.

The Gorilla site has prices in the range US$6- 7k and vehicle ranges of around 25 miles. Otherwise, maybe there is a UK company or individual that does conversions. If you were pulling a trailer, you could transfer the trailer to your road vehicle for deliveries. Also, if the electric vehicle was only used within your wood, it would not need to be registered for road use, which would simplify things.

Dan McNeil · Post by **Dan McNeil** » 09 Feb 2008, 20:52

Hello all ? just joined, so this is my first post.

Reply to Mike (Hi Mike)?

Toyota RAV-4 - reliable engines, bulletproof gearbox and running gear. Expensive used prices.
Nissan X-trail ? (previous model) ? turbo wastegate goes between 40 and 50k miles, turbo blows between 50 and 70k miles. Nice and shiny, but not a reliable vehicle.
Hyundai Tuscon ? not sure about this one, but probably a lot better than the Nissan and better used value than the Toyota.
Freelander ? absolute rubbish ? you need to have a mate following you to pick up the bits that keep falling off.

Dark horse?Skoda Octavia 4x4 Estate TDi (previous model) ? reliable, quick, economical, good handling. There?s also a new version, but guess this will bust your budget.

Land Rover (Defender) best 4 x 4??depends how you define best.

Short wheel base version of Defender probably the best 4x4 in the world as far as off-roading ability goes. Combination of good ground clearance and axle articulation. They also last a long, long time, although even aluminium degrades in the end. However...reliability is simply not up to Jap standards. This might not be a problem in the UK, where a breakdown might be an (expensive) annoyance.

In Australia (where I lived for a few years), everybody in the city with an image to maintain had Range Rovers, Discos and blinged-up Defenders. In the bush, nobody doing serious travel (i.e. hundreds of miles from anywhere) touched ?em. Poor reliability in outback conditions is a killer. Just about everybody doing that kind of travel used (and still uses) Toyota Landcruisers, Daihatsu Fourtraks (a brilliant 4 x4 ? simple like the Land Rover but 10 times more trustworthy), Mitsubishi Shoguns etc.

This was a while ago, and I?d expect Land Rover to have improved a bit since then, but you only have to look at JD Power or similar to see the Jap stuff is still miles ahead.

All the best,
Dan.

Kentucky Fried Panda · Post by **Kentucky Fried Panda** » 09 Feb 2008, 23:40

Jeremy Clarkson said

So that?s why the road test this week is of a Skoda Octavia.

Of course, it?s not really a Skoda because it shares the same underpinnings as an Audi A3, an Audi TT, a VW Golf, a VW Beetle and a VW Bora. So what you?re buying then is Bang & Olufsen in reverse ? quality engineering garnished with a crap badge. And that raises an interesting question. Would you buy a suit that had been made by Gieves & Hawkes if the label on the inside said Cohen & Cohen of Colchester Market? If the answer is ?no?, then I suggest you turn immediately to the Style section of the newspaper where I?m sure you?ll find news of Stella McCartney?s new wellingtons. If the answer is ?yes?, then it might be worth staying with me.

You see, because you have an Ainsley Harriott badge you get the Gordon Ramsay engineering for a knockdown price. The four-wheel-drive estate I tested is ?16,750, and that includes leather trim, climate control, automatic wipers, alloy wheels and traction control. It must also be said that while the styling is depressingly dull, Skoda does a better range of colours than even Farrow & Ball.

You get a pretty sophisticated four-wheel-drive system too, capable of sending virtually all the engine?s power to whichever axle needs it most at a given time. And cleverer still, they?ve built a saddlebag-style petrol tank that sits on either side of the new rear differential, so you don?t lose any boot space.

The engine?s pretty good as well, but then it would be because it?s one of the latest generation 2 litre direct-injection VW units that are as smooth as an evangelical preacher but as parsimonious as a Methodist minister. It?s not all that powerful, though. This is one of those cars that revs cleanly but after several minutes you?re still only doing 14mph.

Then there?s the handling. The 4x4 rides 25mm higher than the normal estate, to give better ground clearance off-road, but this doesn?t make it even slightly wobbly when you give it the beans. Mind you, that might have something to do with the fact I never really went faster than 32 all week.

It?s not really a car that encourages sporty driving. Rather, it?s a comfortable, very well made five-seater with a large boot. It?s a UPVC window among cars. Very sensible. Very Terry and June. And naturally, the Which? brigade adores it.

Plus, because it has four-wheel drive, it has an extra 200kg of braked towing weight, which means it?ll be ideal for pulling your four-berth Abbey Spectrum into a muddy field in the Peak District. Caravannists love Skodas. They love the sense that they know something the rest of the world, with its fancy clothes and fancy foreign holidays, does not. Like caravanning, the Octavia 4x4 is a willfully anti-fashion car. A poke in the eye for Tate Modern and GQ.

As a car, there?s really nothing wrong with it. Certainly, in 10 or 15 years? time, I?d have one like a shot because I sense it would make an ideal grass-track racer.

If you?re looking for a new car today, though, I?m not sure. Yes, the Octavia is cheap compared with other Volkswagen products, but it?s not that far away from either the Subaru Forester or the Legacy, both of which offer similar quality, similar interior space and similar four-wheel-drive traction. Without the dreary styling or the crummy badge.

VITAL STATISTICS

Model Skoda Octavia FSI 4x4 estate
Engine four-cylinder, 1984cc
Power 150bhp @ 6000rpm
Torque 148 lb ft @ 3500rpm
Transmission Six-speed manual
Fuel 31.7mpg (combined cycle)
CO2 214g/km
Acceleration 0-62mph: 9.7sec
Top speed 126mph
Price ?16,750
Verdict Well built and good value but slightly dull
Rating 3/5

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 10 Feb 2008, 08:35

Somebody is planning to start a carry shopping up Steep Hill in Lincoln service - on donkeys. 4 x 4 in as much as they have four powered legs.

Post by **mikepepler** » 10 Feb 2008, 09:12

Thanks Dan, interesting to hear that the RAV4 preforms well, I've heard that in general about Toyota. When I compared it to the others, the think that really struck me is that it's turning circle was HALF that of the rest of them! This could be very handy for manoeuvring in the wood...

Re. the Skoda Octavia 4x4, I have also been considering that, in TDi version, but at present it is too expensive second-hand. Perhaps in a year it will have come down enough.

I'm glad I don't need to make a decision urgently, as there are so many things to consider!

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » 10 Feb 2008, 10:42

Mrs Mustard and me have two Octys, not 4x4, but regular tdis. Driven sensibly, they do 60-70 mpg, even on short trips.

We inherited the second one, (a second car is convenient when one of us works and the other visits family or whatever. A bit of a luxury to have two cars, all the same! Especially here...

) Anyway, as our mileage hasn't increased, this means both should last for many years - those tdi engines should outlast the bodywork. We have no plans to replace them until an even more economical offer is on the market, maybe a diesel hybrid with proven reliability.

I read somewhere that the Octavias from 98-2004(?) were biodiesel capable, but the current engine isn't. And a cabbie I chatted to reckoned the new ones had too much fancy electrics. Not sure, but think the 4x4 diesel only comes with the new style.

But should I foresake the PowerSwitch ethos and trade up to an Octy vRS greased weasel diesel?

I was sooo tempted to rejoin the indebted lumpen consumer society, having 'built my own' on the Skoda website with metallic paint, all conceivable options extras and doodads, for only ?25000.

Kentucky Fried Panda · Post by **Kentucky Fried Panda** » 10 Feb 2008, 13:18

I had a look on autotrader, the 4x4 Octavia is pretty rare 2nd hand and about ?8K for a 3 year old.

I saw the New Model Octavia Scout on the M1 Friday afternoon, it looks a bit like the Audi Allroad, but smaller and much cheaper.

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » 10 Feb 2008, 14:01

Never mind dodgy

secondhand ones...

The Scout with maximum bells and whistles is even more expensive than a vRS.

Octavia Estate Scout engine2.0 TDI PD 140bhp 4x4interior

Alcantara Onyx / Onyx-Onyx /BlackcolourHighland Green Metallicoptional equipmet

Acoustic front and rear parking sensors (?260)
Alcantara upholstery (inc. active headrests & heated front seats) (?1,400)
Curtain airbags (?280)
Electric sunroof (?665)
Maxi-dot trip computer (?120)
Multi-fuction steering wheel (inc. small leather pack and Maxi-dot trip computer) (?220)
Roof rails, silver (?120)
Xenon headlights with integrated headlight washers (?450)

price-rrp: ?25,145

This 'build your own' software wouldn't let me add the ?1500 sat nav...

Ten years ago, Skodas wuz cheap! There even used to be Skoda jokes.

Why do Skodas have rear window heaters?
To keep your hands warm while pushing them.

Heard about the 16 valve Skoda? 4 in the engine, 12 in the radio...

What's the difference between a Skoda and Essex Girl?
At least you get a guarantee with Essex Girl...

Tracy P · Post by **Tracy P** » 10 Feb 2008, 18:51

Really sorry to butt in on this male conversation...... but I don't like Estate cars. I don't I don't I don't!
They are not cool.
I like cool
I would like an old suziki!

Mean Mr Mustard · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard** » 10 Feb 2008, 19:28

You could have a fancy hatchback with aerodynamic plastic...

And I forgot the PowerSwitchers Skoda joke...

How do you double the value of a Skoda?
Fill up the tank...

Thinks... A ?25000 fill up of a 50 litre tank = ?500 a litre. Allowing for currency devaluation and increased fuel cost from scarcity, maybe so in about 10 years?

Kentucky Fried Panda · Post by **Kentucky Fried Panda** » 11 Feb 2008, 00:21

Tracy P wrote:Really sorry to butt in on this male conversation...... but I don't like Estate cars. I don't I don't I don't!
They are not cool.
I like cool
I would like an old suziki!

I didn't read any requirement for cool in the brief... This changes everything.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 11 Feb 2008, 10:16

OK, it might be me but...

Anything Jeremy Clarkson writes is infinitely more depressing than what most PowerSwitchers can write.

Tracy P · Post by **Tracy P** » 11 Feb 2008, 16:57

ah! Haggis, now you are talking!