what about alcohol?

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 10 Oct 2007, 11:53

The japanese used to run their zero fighters on alcohol, its not as hard to store as say hydrogen, if youve ever operated a still its not that hard to produce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jew3ah24Zj4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vq7km9T ... ed&search=

Blue Peter · Post by **Blue Peter** » 10 Oct 2007, 12:06

Thanks! Mine's a pint.

isenhand · Post by **isenhand** » 10 Oct 2007, 13:57

jonny2mad wrote:The japanese used to run their zero fighters on alcohol, its not as hard to store as say hydrogen, if youve ever operated a still its not that hard to produce

Food? Land? I think it was estimated that we would need about 4 earths to produce the bio fuels we need to match current fossil fuel consumption. On saying that, the busses where I live do us ethanol.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 10 Oct 2007, 14:40

jonny2mad wrote:The japanese used to run their zero fighters on alcohol

Sorry is that the planes or the lads who flew them?

I agree with Isen, if biofuels really take off (aaaarrrgh!) there'll have to be some kind of serious restriction like emergency vehicles and public transport only, or (after the initial euphoria) we'll just run out of fields.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 10 Oct 2007, 14:57

He seems to disagee about food or fuel thing

his website http://www.permaculture.com/

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 10 Oct 2007, 15:23

RenewableCandy wrote:
jonny2mad wrote:The japanese used to run their zero fighters on alcohol
Sorry is that the planes or the lads who flew them?

isenhand · Post by **isenhand** » 11 Oct 2007, 06:09

jonny2mad wrote:He seems to disagee about food or fuel thing

his website http://www.permaculture.com/

in what way?

Post by **adam2** » 11 Oct 2007, 07:46

Alcohol may well have a future as a petroleum substitute, but it appears very unlikely that sufficient could be produced to replace more than a very small % of the current consumption.

Apart from the land required to produce the fuel, very considerable fuel inputs are required to produce alcohol, some reports suggest a negative EROEI, even the more optimistic reports suggest only a small gain.

Vegetable oil can also be used as a petroleum substitute, and is simpler to produce, but again it appears very unlikely that sufficient land could be found to allow large scale use.

The prices of many basic foodstuffs has increased greatly recently, partly as a result of the bio-ethanol boom in the USA.
(this appears to be more a farm subsidy program, than an oil saving effort)

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 16 Oct 2007, 20:46

isenhand wrote:
jonny2mad wrote:He seems to disagee about food or fuel thing

his website http://www.permaculture.com/
in what way?

I think he thinks he can get higher yields than say producing vegetable oils watch the two shows ,no idea if hes right but he seems a nice fellow

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