Silent Running

[Andy Hunt]

An interesting article on a Japanese island, where they are using hydroelectricity to make hydrogen for fuel cell cars on the island. No liquid fuels in sight!

I believe that Iceland are doing a similar thing with their geothermal resources.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4686826.stm

[Billhook]

I wish they'd give some hard data in these reports -

all we get in this one is that they have a surplus of Hydroelectric power (i.e. unmarkettable)
being used in a test vehicle whose technology is "too expensive" to be saleable to the public.

The best I've heard so far is that H2 from CH4 will provide road transport at a cost equivalent to $200 /barrel oil.

With CH4 supplies already getting tight in industrialized nations, I've yet to see how Hydro & Geothermal etc can be developed on a scale
first to displace coal power and then to yeild electrolytic H2 sufficient to justify the launch of fleet production of H2FC Vehicles.

I've long suspected that H2FC has a primary role as a soporific for the public getting testy with oil companies' inertia in the face of GW.

regards,

Bill

[Andy Hunt]

The beginnings of a hydrogen economy are already reality in Iceland:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/n ... 208013.stm

I think that post-peak solutions will be very much location-based. hydrogen-based economies will be ideal for isolated locations like these who have few resources for producing biofuels, yet have an excess of hydroelectric or geothermal energy which can be easily tapped.

I think in any location, it is a red herring to ascertain whether natural renewable resources will be able to replace, say, coal-fired power plants or not. The fact is that we will have to get used to far less available energy, and costs of $200BOE will in fact be relatively cheap (H2 can be made from H20 by electrolysis, no CH4 required, BTW).

What energy we do get will come from renewable resources, and will be based on the most appropriate technology for the particular location.

It is one of the prime tenets of energy provision in a situation of scarce resources that a mix of technologies is desirable, to minimise dependency and to maximise reliability, energy production and technological innovation - the latter will continue to be as important, if not more so, post-peak as it is today, I think.

[Billhook]

Andy -

While Iceland is getting some Hydrogen production under way,
and various geographic locatons with abundant cheap non-fossil energy resources may follow suit,
there seems little prospect of these resources justifying fleet production of H2FC vehicles.

In other words, Iceland may have one of the best geothermal resources on the planet, but how can it build the vehicles ?

The electrolysis of H2 from H2O is really quite widely known - I mentioned H2's conventional extraction from CH4 as an indication of its likely costs
from the generally more expensive sustainable energies.

That the latter will become relatively cheap when oil reaches $200 /barrel is a common delusion -
all of the costs of sus. en. production are already being driven up by their oil-based construction, installation and operation costs.
Furthermore it seems highly questionable just how much sustainable capacity will be built before oil's unaffordability
destabilizes global industrial production capacity.

regards,

Bill

[Andy Hunt]

fleet production

I think there is zero chance of any renewable resources, be they hydrogen or biomass or whatever, justifying fleet production in the future. I think that mechanised transport will be reserved for 'essential services' (which will of course include the military). The rest of us will have bicycles and horses, I expect! You can actually get quite a long way on a bike . . . especially if the motorways are free of cars!

Iceland imports a lot of food, so in future it's possible that we might be able to swap them some food for some hydrogen, or the odd vehicle for some hydrogen possibly.

I'm sure they will make sure they have as much of their infrastructure as possible before the oil peak. They seem to have a little more vision than the leadership on these islands!