PowerSwitch

About six or seven days ago, to SWMBO, I uttered the line, "They're working on new ways to take money off people; I expect a new 'charge' or 'levy' any time now."

Sure enough, the latest I've heard about is a 'broadcaster' charge.

This is because the national broadcaster, RTÉ, is losing around €25 mill. per annum. So they've mooted the idea of a new charge, to apply to every household, regardless of whether there's a tv in the house or not, and would replace the licence fee (€160 at the mom).

RTÉ is a commercial station so it might be argued that the licence fee is a private sector subsidy. Also, if they can't make money when the bulk of households pay €160 and (presumably) advertisers contribute, then what is going to be a figure that makes RTÉ break even? And why can't it be privatised - it doesn't compare with services such as the post office or grid, which are up for selling off?

As someone who has never had a tv, I'm working on my response to this.

So as to make it relevant to PS, I'm also going to connect it to PO somehow.

I think I know what might be the next tax/levy/charge/duty/tribute/toll that our leaders and betters are plotting - compelling all households to subscribe to a bin collection service.

Refuse collection is largely privatised in Ireland but only around 58% of households use such services; many visit council-run recycling sites instead; others just dump their unwanted goods.

Forcing people to pay money to these private businesses is one way of, ahem, 'kick-starting' the economy, which we all know is rubbish.

30th January 2012: another €6 billion to be syphoned from pockets.

Last Night the Government Signed Up to €6 Billion More in Austerity Measures

Under current strategy, the Government will be introducing €8.6 billion in spending cuts and tax increases over the next three years. Now they are making a commitment to take on board nearly €6 billion more fiscal adjustments to reach this new structural deficit target - a 66 percent increase in austerity measures.

This is a country where there are 26 (official and conservative figure) unemployed to each job vacancy. Where there are possibly as few as 1.8 million income tax payers. €6 billion (and it could be more, even on top of the promised €8.6 billion) equates to about €3,300 per income tax payer or about €1,400 per citizen.

The liars in government just handed over €1.25 billion to unsecured bondholders, some of whom are thought to be not the original bondholders at all but who bought the bonds at a discount, speculating on Ireland, with another €3.5 billion going to the troika in March.

Watch this space - because soon, that's all you'll see.

Sounds like the sooner Ireland gets kicked out of the eurozone, the better. At least then there could be a new start rather than what you've got at the moment, which is a tunnel with no light at the end.

UndercoverElephant wrote:Sounds like the sooner Ireland gets kicked out of the eurozone, the better.

I honestly can't see that happening. What do you think the circumstances would be for a nation to be booted out? This government is determined to put through every diktat presented to them by the EU; default cannot be considered, let alone discussed. And at the moment there is no sign of anger amongst people in other than an isolated sense.

I wanted to stand in front of someone saying "no, you will not hand over this money". You gambled, you lost, tough.

emordnilap wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:Sounds like the sooner Ireland gets kicked out of the eurozone, the better.

I honestly can't see that happening. What do you think the circumstances would be for a nation to be booted out? This government is determined to put through every diktat presented to them by the EU; default cannot be considered, let alone discussed. And at the moment there is no sign of anger amongst people in other than an isolated sense.

Which nation?

I think the Irish are just biding their time. Everybody is waiting to find out what happens to Greece, which will go first. Depending on what happens there, everything will change elsewhere. That's why there's so much confusion and uncertainty about what will happen to Greece. It is not actually the Greek default itself that matters, because it is too small compared to the entire eurozone GDP. What matters is the precedent that is set.

So perhaps another question is "How terrible a fate must be exacted on Greece in order to dissuade the Portuguese and Irish from wanting to follow them?" Is it going to have to cede territory? Sell ancient monuments? Accept even more austerity when its social fabric is already torn to shreds, even though this isn't going to solve any problems? I'm struggling to see what penalties can realistically be imposed on them that are so harsh that others won't demand to follow. By "realistically" I mean that any attempt to, say, seize Greek territory, will result in catastrophic civil unrest and maybe even a military coup or civil war. There's only so far you can push people before they explode.

UndercoverElephant wrote:

emordnilap wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:Sounds like the sooner Ireland gets kicked out of the eurozone, the better.

I honestly can't see that happening. What do you think the circumstances would be for a nation to be booted out? This government is determined to put through every diktat presented to them by the EU; default cannot be considered, let alone discussed. And at the moment there is no sign of anger amongst people in other than an isolated sense.

Which nation?

Naturally, I'm thinking of Ireland and, as I say, I can't it happening. Still, your question:

UndercoverElephant wrote:"How terrible a fate must be exacted on Greece in order to dissuade the Portuguese and Irish from wanting to follow them?"

is a good one; being booted out of the EU doesn't seem such a terrible fate, if it means resetting debts. But will it?

I'm not convinced the Irish (government) are biding their time, particularly, though there is an element of that in it. It seems more like they're bending over backwards to please their masters, to show the world that ordinary people will accept whatever's thrown at them, if you make them feel guilty enough. America's a good example of it and Ireland can be a great admirer of things American.

Anyway, this terrible fate for Greece. Something to ponder upon. Just how much can they take before they explode? What's the hair trigger moment?

emordnilap wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

emordnilap wrote: I honestly can't see that happening. What do you think the circumstances would be for a nation to be booted out? This government is determined to put through every diktat presented to them by the EU; default cannot be considered, let alone discussed. And at the moment there is no sign of anger amongst people in other than an isolated sense.

Which nation?

Naturally, I'm thinking of Ireland and, as I say, I can't it happening. Still, your question:

UndercoverElephant wrote:"How terrible a fate must be exacted on Greece in order to dissuade the Portuguese and Irish from wanting to follow them?"

is a good one; being booted out of the EU doesn't seem such a terrible fate, if it means resetting debts. But will it?

Yes, by one means or another.

http://ciovaccocapital.com/wordpress/in ... l-default/

Note the ongoing mention of Greece being a “special case” in an attempt to stem the almost inevitable tide of contagion. As we showed graphically on January 27, the ever-increasing yield on Portuguese bonds is indicative of a market that also believes Portugal will be a “special case”.

I'm not convinced the Irish (government) are biding their time, particularly, though there is an element of that in it. It seems more like they're bending over backwards to please their masters, to show the world that ordinary people will accept whatever's thrown at them, if you make them feel guilty enough. America's a good example of it and Ireland can be a great admirer of things American.

Anyway, this terrible fate for Greece. Something to ponder upon. Just how much can they take before they explode? What's the hair trigger moment?

Nobody knows. All anybody knows is that the pressure is cranking up all the time, and that this cannot continue for much longer.

Portugal’s government has said it will not ask for relief and points out that voters at the last election overwhelmingly backed parties championing austerity.

Hang on, that sounds like hogwash to me. Socrates lost over proposed austerity measures.