Trouble in Haiti

[adam2]

Armed gangs have stormed the two largest prisons and released most of the convicts, several thousand in total.
It seems likely that the government will fall and be replaced by gangs of ex-convicts.
A state of emergency has been declared, including a curfew.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-68462851

[adam2]

Later report here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-68486536
The gangs are de-facto in charge of most of the country and have warned the prime minister not to return.

[Forever_Winter]

Not looking too good in Haiti right now.

Bodies decomposing, gangs running the streets, hospitals with no doctors with patients left to themselves. The president nowhere to be seen. Terrible. . Not sure what can be done to sort this, short of sending in boots on the ground, but that never seems to end well....

[Mark]

There's vague talk of a Kenyan Peaceforce, but I don't fancy their chances against the armed gangs of Haiti....
Those boys don't mess about, and they'd have the advantage of knowing the territory...
Sadly for the people, there's nothing in Haiti of value to encourage anybody to help...
Considering what the French did there, it really should be them to step in...
Another very sad chapter in Haiti's history...

Not great for the region to have a rogue state in their midst...
Suspect this might lead to a flood of boats heading for the US shore...
That wouldn't play well for Biden in an election year...

[BritDownUnder]

Pity about Haiti but it has had a bad history that needs to be read up on. The French Revolution said that all men are free. Napoleon said, wait a minute - that does not apply to black people. They fought for their freedom and then ended up saddled with debt to France. I recall watching some of the movie "The Comedians" that was set in a fictional country based on Haiti.

As long as they don't bother anyone else, leave them to it. Just ask the Dominican Republic. It will be interesting to see how a criminal-led government proceeds. Some cynics might say that most governments are led by criminals.

[Mark]

In return for independence, France ordered Haiti to pay 150 million francs over five years to French slaveholders and their descendants !!
The first payment of 30 million francs was x6 larger than Haiti's annual revenue....
Haiti had to take out a loan from a French bank to make the payment....
It took Haiti 122 years to pay them off...

The US hasn't treated them much better...

[adam2]

"Haiti PM resigns as law and order collapse"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-68541349

[Mark]

Fear and chaos await Haitian migrants forced back over border:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-68562140

Grim...

[adam2]

The situation continues to worsen with substantial loss of life.
A lot of the killing is random, but some is targeted at judges and senior police.
The adjacent Dominican Republic has largely closed the border, for fear that the gangs will try to take over the neighbour also.
Haiti is now whatever failed banana republics turn into.

[BritDownUnder]

Haiti has not just tried to take over the Dominican Republic - they actually did on at least one occasion and ruled the whole island, rather badly, probably. The Dominicans are rightly wary of Haiti and I fully support them in not wanting anything to do with Haiti. Being next to France is bad enough for the UK so just imagine being next to a criminal-ran and poverty stricken France and you are half way there. The Dominicans tend to not put up with things like the UK do however. The erstwhile Dominican dictator initiated an interesting test on Haitians immigrants in the 1930s where if they could not say the Spanish word for parsley (perejil - I believe) with a special Spanish linguistic trill emphasis on the letter R that French speakers had some difficulty with, then they were simply shot - about 30,000 of them.

I think Haiti should be left to its own devices at this time as a study to see how societies collapse and what other countries can learn from them.

[Mark]

There's a fantastic book about that period of Dominican history called The Feast of the Goat by Mario Vargas Llosa...
Well worth a read if you want to learn more...

BDU, the depth of your humanity for your fellow man again shows no bounds....
There are many innocent Haitians who just want to live their lives like anyone else...
Not everybody there is a gangster - far from it...

I'm not suggesting UK involvement though - it should be down to the US and France or maybe their Caribbean neighbours...
If left to fester for too long, you never know what might evolve...

[BritDownUnder]

Pragmatic as the result of many years experience.

No. Not everybody around the world is a gangster these days - just a lot of people in charge of countries - like Russia, Venezuela, North Korea, Iran, Syria, China (maybe), I could go on.

Dominican history is indeed very interesting. They had a dictator many years back who was actually, and sort of by accident, an environmentalist as the country needed a good supply of water for its hydro electric dams. Clearing of forests was made illegal under pain of death as this would have ruined the rainfall promoting forests and hence water supply for the hydro dams.

Difficult to know where Haiti will go next. What keeps the CIA up at night is perhaps some form of syncretism of Islam and Voodoo might take hold among the people there.

[UndercoverElephant]

What keeps the CIA up at night is perhaps some form of syncretism of Islam and Voodoo might take hold among the people there.

You don't half talk some bollocks. Less than 1% of the population of Haiti is muslim.

[UndercoverElephant]

Haiti is now whatever failed banana republics turn into.

It's called anarchy. Those on the left who call themselves "anarchists" should take note.

[BritDownUnder]

What keeps the CIA up at night is perhaps some form of syncretism of Islam and Voodoo might take hold among the people there.

You don't half talk some bollocks. Less than 1% of the population of Haiti is muslim.

'
Hypothetical bollocks. Before you shoot from the hip you need to note the words 'perhaps' and 'might'. And don't forget the capital letters or they might issue a fatwa against you.

Few might have predicted that the spread of Islam amongst the UK prison population was initiated by Muslims getting 'better' prison food and more prisoners then becoming Muslims to get the better food.