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https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... oronavirus

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/the-grocer- ... 23.article

A document, backed by 30 trade groups, proposes a recovery based on more sustainable and heathier UK diets – with better support for domestic producers and a more proactive policy to prevent food waste.

We can only hope the government takes heed. Because without some joined-up thinking, we risk a huge food security crisis in the UK – which could eventually prove to be even more dangerous to public health than coronavirus itself.

Unfortunately, senior Treasury advisor, Tim Leunig, is advising the government that because the farming and fishing industries represent such a small proportion of the British economy we can do without them and import our food instead. As a result of advice such as this there are factions of the government which wish to put a trade agreement with the US above our own food security. Idiot economists!!

kenneal - lagger wrote:Unfortunately, senior Treasury advisor, Tim Leunig, is advising the government that because the farming and fishing industries represent such a small proportion of the British economy we can do without them and import our food instead. As a result of advice such as this there are factions of the government which wish to put a trade agreement with the US above our own food security. Idiot economists!!

It's clear that many of your Conservative friends support such a Singapore economic model for the UK. It's a bit disingenuous to single out Leunig.

I am not convinced that this is a party political issue.
I believe that as a nation we need to take food supplies much more seriously than at present.

Increase domestic food production.
Bring back into production land that is at present unused.
Encourage livestock production on land unsuited to arable farming.
Government to hold large emergency stocks of basic non perishables, grains, sugar, edible oils, dried milk, potato powder.
Encourage the public to hold stocks if they can.
Stop the civil service from giving away our fishing grounds.

No matter which party may be in power.

And also increase renewable energy production, wind and solar principally. And this IS indirectly relevant to food supplies.
Foreign currency not used to import gas, oil, and electricity would then be available to pay for food imports, possibly at far higher prices than at present.
Plenty of cheap power can be used to make nitrogen fertiliser rather than importing same.
And the more transport that we can electrify, the easier it will be to use imported oil for essential agricultural machinery.
Electric cars, vans, buses, and trains are available right now, electric combine harvesters and large tractors are not generally available.

It is interesting that Australia's food surplus is about the same as the UK's food deficit - in terms of millions of peoples calorific requirements anyway, perhaps not the exact same types of food. Given that China is trying to punish Australia by not buying some food types (this is about as sensible as holding a gun to one's own head and threatening to shoot) and the EU is threatening to punish the UK by not selling them some food types then I suggest the PMs of Australia and the UK have a phone call and the UK can buy high quality Australian food.

Then the Singapore model - whatever that is - can be avoided, as well as the option of buying tariff-free 'substandard' American food.

Australia exports about 70 per cent of its agricultural production (by volume), including 71 per cent of its wheat crop, 75 per cent of beef and veal production, and 40 per cent of its dairy products.

References here and here

Problem solved.

BritDownUnder wrote:.....
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as well as the option of buying tariff-free 'substandard' American food.

Hay there Mate, America will produce and sell the UK food produced to any standard you care to specify including picked by topless virgins if you are willing to pay the extra costs. Organic chemical free? got it. Grass fed beef? Got it.Cheaper commercial pork and chicken ? Got that too.

vtsnowedin wrote:

BritDownUnder wrote:.....
.......

as well as the option of buying tariff-free 'substandard' American food.

Hay there Mate, America will produce and sell the UK food produced to any standard you care to specify including picked by topless virgins if you are willing to pay the extra costs. Organic chemical free? got it. Grass fed beef? Got it.Cheaper commercial pork and chicken ? Got that too.

Exactly. The EU already actually allows import of a quota of tariff free beef from the US (amongst others). This is under the guise of "high quality beef" whereby hormone free beef is not given tariffs.

Why we couldn't apply the same principle I don't know, the ideal plan would be:

- Preferential tariffs/access for products which meet or exceed existing standards
- Reform of labelling requirements so that consumers have a clear view of what they are buying.

This might even have the benefit of improving standards across the board.

vtsnowedin wrote:

BritDownUnder wrote:.....
.......

as well as the option of buying tariff-free 'substandard' American food.

Hay there Mate, America will produce and sell the UK food produced to any standard you care to specify including picked by topless virgins if you are willing to pay the extra costs. Organic chemical free? got it. Grass fed beef? Got it.Cheaper commercial pork and chicken ? Got that too.

Hence the quotes. When I spent six months in America I thought the food was excellent except the bacon which was way too fatty.
I think the argument is that the food does not have to be labelled that it was prepared by topless (or fully dressed at a small discount) virgins or washed in chlorine - just that it has been prepared according to the minimum USDA standards which presumably approve of both virginal preparation and chlorine washing.

Given that 30 years ago the UK was quite prepared to sell beef that had come from cows that had been fed the ground up remains of their parents and grandparents the UK public is still a bit worried about food quality and preparations.

vtsnowedin wrote:

BritDownUnder wrote:.....
.......

as well as the option of buying tariff-free 'substandard' American food.

Hay there Mate, America will produce and sell the UK food produced to any standard you care to specify including picked by topless virgins if you are willing to pay the extra costs. Organic chemical free? got it. Grass fed beef? Got it.Cheaper commercial pork and chicken ? Got that too.

The problem is that the US has no problem selling high quality stuff probably produced by small scale producers. The US has a problem selling the low quality shite that is mass produced by industrial scale producers and that is what the US-UK trade deal is all about including a clause to stop any labelling that might frighten purchasers from buying said hormone, antibiotic, GM and Roundup riddled, low safety standard shite (I won't dignify it with the description of food).

BritDownUnder wrote:..............Given that 30 years ago the UK was quite prepared to sell beef that had come from cows that had been fed the ground up remains of their parents and grandparents the UK public is still a bit worried about food quality and preparations.

Some people buying low quality food have also more recently suffered horse meat dressed up as beef in cheap ready meals so the British consumer, most of whom wouldn't have bought the really cheap stuff, want to know that there are labels on food and that those labels tell us what is in the tin.

clv101 wrote:

kenneal - lagger wrote:Unfortunately, senior Treasury advisor, Tim Leunig, is advising the government that because the farming and fishing industries represent such a small proportion of the British economy we can do without them and import our food instead. As a result of advice such as this there are factions of the government which wish to put a trade agreement with the US above our own food security. Idiot economists!!

It's clear that many of your Conservative friends support such a Singapore economic model for the UK. It's a bit disingenuous to single out Leunig.

I will agree with you there, Chris, but not all. The problem is the advice that our MPs, of all parties, are getting from Treasury advisers and economists such as Leunig and from lobbyists. They are all getting the message, even in Tony Bleh's time, that farming and fishing are a small part of the economy and don't matter to the country.

This is patently a ridiculous way of going about things at a time when world food production is under massive strain and only likely to get worse with climate change, more extreme weather and sea level rise and, of course, rising world population until at least 2050 and the UK's requirement to import hundreds of thousands more people every year to fuel economic growth.

VT, the Singapore model is to stuff your country full of people, far more than you can hope to feed from your land, earn lots of money and then hope that you can buy all your food on world markets.

Initiation wrote:.........
- Preferential tariffs/access for products which meet or exceed existing standards
- Reform of labelling requirements so that consumers have a clear view of what they are buying.

This might even have the benefit of improving standards across the board.

The agreement going through at the moment specifically precludes any differential tariffs and any warning labels so that the US can dump all its cheap shite on this country without us having the faintest idea what we are buying.

Without the removal of all domestic quality and safety standards nearly all UK farmers will go bust and UK farm land prices will drop a little until big business starts to buy the land up as an "investment." We will all then become slaves to the corporations as we will be entirely dependent on them for food and housing. They will be able to set the price of both and decide who gets what of both. It won't be just people of colour who are having to complain that their lives matter.

That might sound a bit melodramatic but that is the way things are going if we give government and corporations the powers that they are asking for in the Trade Bill currently going through Parliament. It will leave corporations with ultimate power and in the end there will be just the "One" corporation.

kenneal - lagger wrote:

vtsnowedin wrote:

BritDownUnder wrote:.....
.......

as well as the option of buying tariff-free 'substandard' American food.

Hay there Mate, America will produce and sell the UK food produced to any standard you care to specify including picked by topless virgins if you are willing to pay the extra costs. Organic chemical free? got it. Grass fed beef? Got it.Cheaper commercial pork and chicken ? Got that too.

The problem is that the US has no problem selling high quality stuff probably produced by small scale producers.

That isn't a problem.

I have no problem with clear and accurate labels and I'm not really sure who does or who is pushing that provision in the trade negotiations. Once it became an issue here major suppliers of chicken and turkey have changed operations and now label their product as not being raised with antibiotic laced feed. If Tyson can do it anybody can and will if that is what the customer wants.
The only thing that could be in short supply is the virgins topless or not.

ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:......................That isn't a problem. Just another advantage to being both the world's largest producer of oil and natural gas, and the world's largest agricultural exporter as well.

The problem is that the US government is run by corporations for the short term benifit of those corporations. The UK government is virtually the same although we do have higher food standards than the US and the EU. The US corporations are happy to despoil large tracts of your country and the world as well for short term profit, hence Trump's bonfire of the regulations and your cheap produce.

Then folks can buy the high quality items you've already admitted we are more than capable of producing. Is your angle that you islanders are idiot consumers and don't know what to buy, with or without being told by a label?

We islanders can produce high quality food just as well as you can so we wouldn't need to buy yours. And UK people will buy British when they can afford it. But your government doesn't want any labelling to be able to differentiate. According to your government food labelling is bad for consumers as it might frighten them. With the amount of rubbish that goes into most US food it would give many of them a heart attack if they were to see what passes for food in the US.

We islanders have a poor population, just as the US does, who have to buy on price. We have an obesity problem just as the US does because those poor people buy cheap corporation manufactured shite to eat because they can't afford proper food. The cost of that obesity then goes onto taxation to pay for their health care so the taxpayer ends up subsidising corporations yet again. And you Americans are proud of the system that your are foisting on the world!