Get your hands in your pockets - help these poor sods out!

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 02 Nov 2019, 13:45

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/n ... alth-taxes

Diddums to this lot.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 02 Nov 2019, 17:03

The Grauniad is the mouth piece of the liberal-leftists. I donâ€™t know what this sob story is for. As for the rich looking to get out of the country, it was always thus. Examples are Phillip Groper Green, and Lewis Hamilton, Â£40 million a year driver. Yeah, he sure does support the UK, not. Then again, most of us just teeter along, too poor or too unambitious (greedy) to emigrate.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 03 Nov 2019, 17:55

You should be praying they really do go, which is doubtful.

BritDownUnder · Post by **BritDownUnder** » 05 Nov 2019, 20:00

I feel sorry for those Piers and Henriettas who will now have to go to those beastly Swiss finishing schools instead of Eton college and Cheltenham Ladies college.

On a more personal note I can see myself paying a bit more tax, maybe 100,000 pounds more if I inherit my parent's 'fortune' that they carefully saved over the years against my advice.

There's a good YouTube video of Milton Friedman answering a question, very politely and carefully I may say, from a young Latino questioner about why all inheritances are not taxed at 100%. Basically the rich will spend all their money before they die on things that won't help the greater economy such as overseas travel (assuming Jezza allows overseas travel to places other than Cuba and China), cruises and that such thing and luxury goods - generally pissing it away - instead of investing it and, hopefully, creating some wealth.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 18 Nov 2019, 15:14

BritDownUnder wrote:...... Basically the rich will spend all their money before they die on things that won't help the greater economy such as overseas travel (assuming Jezza allows overseas travel to places other than Cuba and China), cruises and that such thing and luxury goods - generally pissing it away - instead of investing it and, hopefully, creating some wealth.

The super rich have too much money to fritter away easily. And, while the world argues about taxing the rich or not, there will always be opportunities for them to salt much of their money away in a tax haven somewhere. We won't be able to tax the rich effectively until the whole world agrees to do it and also agrees on the definition of what rich is. After all probably 75% of the population of the UK is rich from the point of view of the average sub-Saharan African.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 18 Nov 2019, 15:39

Basically the rich will spend all their money before they die on things that won't help the greater economy such as overseas travel (assuming Jezza allows overseas travel to places other than Cuba and China), cruises and that such thing and luxury goods - generally pissing it away - instead of investing it and, hopefully, creating some wealth.
_________________

That could not be further from the truth. The rich hold great amounts of their wealth in the stock of the businesses that made them wealthy and will pass on most of it including their real estate to their heirs after taxes and charitable contributions have been deducted. While they may spend considerable amounts on travel and other high life they usually do that from current income leaving the principle to grow year on year.
A recent article estimated that the baby boomer generation will over the next couple of decades pass down 68 trillion to their children. That is the amount they have not wizzed away on travel and vacations.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/20/great-w ... nials.html

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 18 Nov 2019, 16:05

If your assertion that the rich invested their money in businesses were true, VT, there would not be a market in derivatives and bits of paper with a value of $542 trillion. Some of them might have made their money through a bona fide business but a lot of the profit ends up in the financial sector. How do you think London makes its money? It's not through manufacturing.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 18 Nov 2019, 16:25

I don't know why one precludes the other. Yes the derivatives market exists but if you look at the richest people in the world. Warren Buffet, Bill Gates , the Walton's etc. they own a lot of stock in going concerns from apple computers to railroad rolling stock.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 18 Nov 2019, 19:43

The Sunday Times Rich List 2019 (Top 10)

Sri and Gopi Hinduja (Industry and finance) - Â£22bn
David and Simon Reuben (Property and internet) - Â£18.7bn
Sir Jim Ratcliffe (Chemicals) - Â£18.2bn
Sir Leonard Blavatnik (Investment, music and media) - Â£14.4bn
Sir James Dyson and family (Household goods and technology) - Â£12.6bn
Kirsten and Jorn Rausing (Inheritance and investment) - Â£12.3bn
Charlene de Carvalho-Heineken (Inheritance, brewing and banking) - Â£12bn
Alisher Usmanov (Mining and investment) - Â£11.3bn
Roman Abramovich (Oil and industry) - Â£11.2bn
Mikhail Fridman (Industry) - Â£10.9bn

I stand to be corrected, but more than half of these guys are not native to the UK ?
So, London must be attractive to dodgy Oligarchs and the like, regardless of our tax rates ?

The 'native' British ones like Sir Jim and Sir James have certainly moved their businesses around the world to take advantage of lower wage costs and tax rates....
Can't comment on their personal fortunes, but I'm sure they get the best financial advice going to keep their tax liabilities to the bare minimum.....

These guys are in the same class as the Yankee bloodsucker corporations like Starbucks, Google, Facebook, Am@zon etc.....
Losing them wouldn't be the end of the world, and might even help towards rebalancing the country and the London property market ?

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 18 Nov 2019, 20:06

Losing them wouldn't be the end of the world

No but would you want to lose all the stores and products they have provided to get that much wealth. Take Mrs. Mars for example the 33rd richest person in the world. No matter what you think of her I still like the candy and don't think she has stolen anything from anybody getting it to my store shelves.
I note that one of the Koch brothers No11 in the world has passed away this year moving everybody below him up a notch. Proving that though you might avoid a lot of taxes there is nothing surer then death and you can't take it with you.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/riches ... forbes/11/

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 19 Nov 2019, 12:25

vtsnowedin wrote:............. No but would you want to lose all the stores and products they have provided to get that much wealth. ..........

They aren't going to move all their stores out of a country just because it has increased tax to pay in that country. Even if they are paying more tax than before they are still making money so they're not going to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 19 Nov 2019, 16:53

kenneal - lagger wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:............. No but would you want to lose all the stores and products they have provided to get that much wealth. ..........
They aren't going to move all their stores out of a country just because it has increased tax to pay in that country. Even if they are paying more tax than before they are still making money so they're not going to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Starbucks - don't use, they kill local cafes and coffee shops
Google - must admit, I do use Google, but alternatives are available, such as Ecosia ?
Facebook - don't use, prefer real world friends
Am@zon - don't use, they exploit their supply chain, mistreat their workers and have helped to wreck UK High Streets

We wouldn't miss any of these....
Tax 'em more, I say.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 20 Nov 2019, 00:13

Even if they are paying more tax than before they are still making money so they're not going to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Nice sentiment but do you trust the Liberals to not tax them out of existence?

Starbucks - don't use, they kill local cafes and coffee shops
Google - must admit, I do use Google, but alternatives are available, such as Ecosia ?
Facebook - don't use, prefer real world friends
Am@zon - don't use, they exploit their supply chain, mistreat their workers and have helped to wreck UK High Streets

So you would prefer that the government will choose the winners and losers in the marketplace?

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 20 Nov 2019, 00:33

vtsnowedin wrote:
Starbucks - don't use, they kill local cafes and coffee shops
Google - must admit, I do use Google, but alternatives are available, such as Ecosia ?
Facebook - don't use, prefer real world friends
Am@zon - don't use, they exploit their supply chain, mistreat their workers and have helped to wreck UK High Streets
So you would prefer that the government will choose the winners and losers in the marketplace?

I prefer a a fair system.
Not one where the huge corporate tax dodgers can crush the independents.
Not one where the corporates off-shore their profits and use zero hour contracts.
One where CSR and a local connection mean something.
All a foreign language to you, my friend...

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 20 Nov 2019, 10:11

I also want a fair system and the present one needs improving. Not complete replacement. Corporations dodge taxes and off shore profits following the rules. The rules and those who write them are the problem and we need to change both.
Yes CSR is an unfamiliar term?