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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-21688447

Around half of the UK's growing deer population needs to be shot each year to stop devastation of woodlands and birdlife, a group of scientists says.

"What we are advocating isn't removing deer from the countryside - what we are advocating is trying to get on top of the deer population explosion and try to control the problems that are being caused.

"And in a way, [venison] provides a sustainable food source where you know where it comes from, you know it is ethically sourced, you know it is safe to eat, and that puts food on people's tables. As much as I love deer, to be a meat eater but then to object to the culling and harvesting of deer seems to be inconsistent."

Probably the stupidest of our food supply issues. There is no question that the wild deer population in the UK is out of control, and this meat is healthy (low fat) and has zero production costs. There's three reasons why we don't have much of a venison market, and I don't really understand any of them. Firstly there is the cost - why should wild meat with no production costs be more expensive than farmed meat? Secondly some people don't like the idea of eating deer, presumably because they are cute. Thirdly, people claim they don't like the taste of the meat, which is just as incomprehensible to me as the first two reasons.

I like deer, but when I see them roaming about the countryside, I see food.

Deer are not raised at zero cost. They spend every night in some farmers field eating some of his most nutritious crops stealing it from his livestock. The 50% figure seemed high to me as sustainable harvest here is 33% but you don't have deep winter snow or coyotes or much of a poaching problem so perhaps they are correct. And yes venison does taste different then beef and is an acquired taste and benefits from different cooking recipes and methods. I've read elsewhere that you sub out deer harvesting to "Professionals" that take carefully chosen shots to create a saleable carcass. These people have skin in the game and will resist any attempt to let others in on their profit center.

vtsnowedin wrote:sustainable harvest here is 33%

A sustainable harvest isn't the objective. The idea is to reduce numbers significantly.

There is deer shooting going on on large country estates. People often fly in by helicopter like to get dressed up & pay a shed load of money to go deer stalking etc.

Also i reckon alot of poaching goes on.

Forum all about deer stalking....

http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/forum.php

They have no natural predators since wolves were got rid of so I suppose more drastic culling is neded to keep numbers static in the UK compared to in the USA?

I heard on Radio 4 this morning that the need for the 50% cull was because their sheer numbers meant they were destroying the habitat of other wild animals.

Is that the answer to overpopulation and habitat destruction, like, accross the board?

heh

It isn't the ones on the country estates that are causing most of the problems. As lurker says, these herds tend to be managed for profit. It's all the others that are causing the problems - the ones on public and Forestry Commission land, and increasingly in people's gardens. Roe and muntjac in particular, at least in my neck of the woods.

extractorfan wrote:I heard on Radio 4 this morning that the need for the 50% cull was because their sheer numbers meant they were destroying the habitat of other wild animals.

Is that the answer to overpopulation and habitat destruction, like, accross the board?

heh

Humans are different, of course...

They really are destroying habitat though. They are not fussy eaters in terms of selection of different sorts of food. They won't touch grass in fields where livestock are kept, but they'll eat almost anything they can reach in woodland or gardens.

clv101 wrote:

vtsnowedin wrote:sustainable harvest here is 33%

A sustainable harvest isn't the objective. The idea is to reduce numbers significantly.

That is easily done. It is called open season. Let anyone with space in his freezer take a deer at any time he sees fit by any method he sees as humane with the only rule be to not waste the meat.
Even then it will take a long time as you don't know how to go about it and when hunted they become vary wary and hard to kill. It takes packs of deer hounds and groups of skilled shooters to reduce a herd to zero.
And this business of biologists counting deer at night is a pile of muck. All you need to do is look at the statistics of auto vs. deer collisions to have a firm handle on deer populations. It is a totally random sample free from bias and you can set your deer bag limits using those figures without spending another dime.

UndercoverElephant wrote:

extractorfan wrote:I heard on Radio 4 this morning that the need for the 50% cull was because their sheer numbers meant they were destroying the habitat of other wild animals.

Is that the answer to overpopulation and habitat destruction, like, accross the board?

heh

Humans are different, of course...

They really are destroying habitat though. They are not fussy eaters in terms of selection of different sorts of food. They won't touch grass in fields where livestock are kept, but they'll eat almost anything they can reach in woodland or gardens.

Now I've heard everything. They are browsers that pick and choose the best available feed. If the deer aren't eating a grass species it is because they are picking the alpha and clover out between the blades of grass. In winter they will eat the needles off a fir tree and the buds and stems off hard wood brush. Not eat the grass??

vtsnowedin wrote: That is easily done. It is called open season. Let anyone with space in his freezer take a deer at any time he sees fit by any method he sees as humane with the only rule be to not waste the meat.

Given that very few people in the UK have guns or the hunting skills or the time to track and kill these animals, and use of guns or crossbows in public spaces tends to lead to heavy prison sentences and having shot the beasts few people know how to process the meat and local butchers are now a rarity. Traps big enough to take a deer are also frowned upon and I think have been illegal for many decades. Poisen obviously also a problem.

RalphW wrote:

vtsnowedin wrote: That is easily done. It is called open season. Let anyone with space in his freezer take a deer at any time he sees fit by any method he sees as humane with the only rule be to not waste the meat.

Given that very few people in the UK have guns or the hunting skills or the time to track and kill these animals, and use of guns or crossbows in public spaces tends to lead to heavy prison sentences and having shot the beasts few people know how to process the meat and local butchers are now a rarity. Traps big enough to take a deer are also frowned upon and I think have been illegal for many decades. Poisen obviously also a problem.

Shooting them would seem the obvious answer, it would not take that many people with lawfully held guns to make a dent in the population of deer.
Up to a point these animals should be accepted as part of the landscape, but the present numbers are excessive and a cause of considerable damage to crops, trees and gardens.
Venison is very nice fried in garlic butter

And the muntjac aren't remotely native. They've come here from abroad taking our jobs, marrying our daughters and...no that's wrong,.... eating our trees and vegetables.

adam2 wrote: Venison is very nice fried in garlic butter

Not if you don't like the after effects of garlic.

vtsnowedin wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

extractorfan wrote:I heard on Radio 4 this morning that the need for the 50% cull was because their sheer numbers meant they were destroying the habitat of other wild animals.

Is that the answer to overpopulation and habitat destruction, like, accross the board?

heh

Humans are different, of course...

They really are destroying habitat though. They are not fussy eaters in terms of selection of different sorts of food. They won't touch grass in fields where livestock are kept, but they'll eat almost anything they can reach in woodland or gardens.

Now I've heard everything. They are browsers that pick and choose the best available feed. If the deer aren't eating a grass species it is because they are picking the alpha and clover out between the blades of grass. In winter they will eat the needles off a fir tree and the buds and stems off hard wood brush. Not eat the grass??

Deer in the UK steer clear of livestock fields. Too much livestock crap all over the place. And in UK woodlands they no longer pick and choose, because there's so many of them that they have to eat everything.

biffvernon wrote:And the muntjac aren't remotely native.

No. They're asian, and usually tropical or sub-tropical.

Roe are native, but we've wiped out nearly all of their natural predators.