PowerSwitch

Damn this government.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... ey-juniper

Why?

What is the BAS achieving that, say, the American, Russian or Chinese equivalents aren't doing already with bigger budgets?

Agreed biff.

But damn us, the people, who allow ourselves to suffer rule that is directly against our best interests. Our politicians are acting in the interest of their business leader buddies and themselves only. I really pity those who believe they're in this group but aren't.

The ozone 'hole' was discovered by the BAS and wasn't found by the others. If they had found it would they have kept quiet? Probably.

So why dont you pay for it Biff?

I do, and would willingly pay more. Science spending, and associated taxation, is atop my criteria for voting.

No Biff, thats the point, you wouldnt pay.

You think others should be made to pay.

But prove me wrong, get on the blower to the BAS, find how much money they want and sell your house to pay it.

But then of course, that would mildly inconveniencing yourself, much better to demand banksters pay

DominicJ wrote:No Biff, thats the point, you wouldnt pay.

You think others should be made to pay.

But prove me wrong, get on the blower to the BAS, find how much money they want and sell your house to pay it.

But then of course, that would mildly inconveniencing yourself, much better to demand banksters pay

So are you expecting the Banksters to make a similar offer then? Or is it OK that we should pay for that?

Note to self: never bother replying to stupid posts on PowerSwitch; it only results in even stupider posts being made.

My question was honest - what does the BAS achieve that other better funded units can't do?

Ice surveys are done by satellite, oceanic current and temperature measurement is automated.

How many scientists does it take to count penguins?

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:My question was honest - what does the BAS achieve that other better funded units can't do?

Lots of stuff. BAS aren't just doing the same stuff as other institutions. There's more than enough stuff to study to keep both the Americas and the British busy. Here's their current research programme:
http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/bas_researc ... /index.php

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:Ice surveys are done by satellite, oceanic current and temperature measurement is automated.

This just isn't true. Sure 'some' ice surveys are done by satellite and 'some' ocean observation is automated, but a lot isn't.

BAS is in a tricky position, in some regards it's more of a logistics operation than pure science. Working in Antarctica and the Southern Ocean is hard. Keeping the ships running this last decade has been very hard given they are funded like an academic institution but the costs (like fuel) aren't like any other academic department.

One problem the community would have with BAS closing or scaling back is that the logistic support offered to many other research institutions will be reduced. Individual universities wouldn't be able to do a lot of what they do without the support from BAS.

It's been suggested that BAS could be rolled in the National Oceanographic Center (NOC). Just 3 years ago the Liverpool based Proudman Oceanographic Lab was rolled into NOC to to save money - it has saved money, but also reduced the output. If BAS was similarly combined I've no doubt our capacity for polar research would be significantly reduced.

Of all the things we should be reducing spending on today, global change research is certainly not one of them.

Perhaps we need an International Ice Station to complement the ISS.

I would be very surprised if there isn't a lot of duplication. In the following list I simplify greatly but the gist is there.

Chemistry & Past Climate - takes ice cores. That work can be subbed out.
Climate Study - gathers climactic data. That work can be subbed out.
EcoSystems - counts penguins, fish & krill. That work can be subbed out.
Ice Sheets - measures ice thickness and is funded by the Europeans.
Polar Oceans - measures oceanic parameters using automatic equipment.
Environmental Change & Evolution - lots of specialist manual data gathering.

The only programme I see there that needs the BAS is the last one. The others could equally be done by single international teams with shared funding and shared data.

I agree that the science needs to be done but I doubt maintaining an expensive quasi-colonial presence in Antarctica is the most cost effective way to do it.

If I were Chancellor I'd double the BAS funding before teatime as an interim measure and then work out how much more than that was really needed.

The annual budget is only about £50 million.

As I said, Biff only believes in spending other peoples money

DominicJ wrote:As I said, Biff only believes in spending other peoples money

Sir mr Biffs approach is one that for good or bad is part of the environmentalists and activists world, I think on occasion its good to hear all point of view. But over the years I do find many environmental activists are very similar to the useless Liberals. And Liberals feel a great sense of debt to their fellow men, but they intend to use your money to repay that debt !!!

biffvernon wrote:Note to self: never bother replying to stupid posts on PowerSwitch; it only results in even stupider posts being made.

...but it takes away the reward for being here?!