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George Soros: “we are on the edge of collapse”
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 01:45
by UndercoverElephant
http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/20110627 ... llapse.htm
Gold and silver prices are continuing to fall as more and more hedge funds conduct panic sales in a dash for cash.
i.e. they really would like to hold on to their gold, but the alternative to selling it is worse.
And this is coming from the person who bet against the UK government and walked away with £13bn for one day's work.
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 06:49
by 2 As and a B
Deleted
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 07:42
by Lord Beria3
Yup, intially, gold will sell-off as hedge funds and others sell 'risky' commodities and buying into 'safe' government bonds. When this crisis hits the core government bond markets, money will flee this sector and pour back into equities and gold.
In the short term Marc Faber and Soros are correct, gold is going into a correction, mediun term, its going up HARD. I see this crisis of financial meltdown going on into the new year - see the Leap 2020 thread for their own take on this July - Jan 2012 crisis moment.
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 07:45
by GlynG
You should definitely read
this recent Zero Hedge article on Soros' piece as it puts a whole different slant on this and suggests ulterior motives behind the pronouncements, rather than taking them at face value.
To quote some of the most relevant bits:
"Soros’ recent sale of his gold ETF holdings made headline news internationally with much commentary claiming that Soros sale of his gold ETF holdings means that gold has “peaked” and the “bubble” may soon burst...However, what was less reported was the fact that Soros maintained very significant positions in gold mining companies. It is highly unlikely that Soros Fund Management would maintain significant allocation to gold mining companies if there was a belief that gold was a bubble that was soon to burst...Given Soros view that “we are on the verge of an economic collapse” and his oft repeated deep concerns about the U.S. dollar, it is very possible that he is accumulating gold in allocated accounts away from the spotlight of the media and the public."
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 08:13
by Lord Beria3
http://www.businessinsider.com/economis ... ear-2011-6
Charles Gave is the French economist whose research firm GaveKal is fairly well known, and read in some hedge fund circles.
In his latest note, John Mauldin reports on a dinner he attended with several investors and experts, of which Gave was one. At the dinner, he predicted the Euro's imminent demise.
Further down the article it stresses that once Europe realises that with growth dying, there is no way that any of these countries can repay their debt, the prospects of a disorderly collapse of the euro becomes much higher.
My thinking is that within 18 months the world will start waking up to PO - and the current financial system will implode. We will enter the brutal era of scarcity industrialism.
The transition could be very messy, which is why I suggest that you make preparations in terms of money, food etc
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 08:24
by 2 As and a B
Deleted
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 10:46
by Ludwig
Canny investors are going to be feeding the world a combination of accurate insight and disinformation. Their accurate predictions gives them credibility so that their disinformation is taken seriously. Maybe that's stating the obvious...
Of course crying wolf isn't something anyone can do many times without their reputation going down the pan, so maybe Soros regards this as a big enough opportunity to take that risk?
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 10:50
by DominicJ
Remember hedge funds buy things with credit.
If you borrow £100 @ 5% and buy 100 units of gold with a 1% storage fee.
In a years time, if you cant sell 99 units of gold for £105, you're screwed.
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 12:25
by RGR
[quote="Lord Beria3"]
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 12:33
by Bandidoz
OK RGR no need to burst a blood vessel
Calm down dude
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 13:06
by RGR
[quote="Bandidoz"]
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 13:46
by 2 As and a B
Deleted
Posted: 28 Jun 2011, 15:21
by Lord Beria3
RGR - why don't we agree to disagree.
Ludwig - agree, Soros is a smart ruthless man (he worked for the Nazis in seizing other Jews property in WW2 whilst hiding his own Jewishness!!)
Posted: 29 Jun 2011, 04:14
by RGR
[quote="Lord Beria3"]
Posted: 30 Jun 2011, 11:11
by Lord Beria3
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article28957.html
Very good article from Nadeen on the risk of a full scale banking collapse within the next few years.
Risks of PIIGS Sovereign Debt Default
Joining Greece are the other european bankrupting nations to varying degrees that are collectively referred to as the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain), though a few others such as Belgium should also be included in the list as the risks of actual default vary between nations of the Eurozone as the below graphic illustrates the probability of actual default within the next 3 years, though this does not mean that we will have to wait for 3 years for countries such as Greece that are permanently tottering on the brink of default
The mainstream press predominantly focuses on the bottom line numbers of by how much are each countries banks exposed to Greek government debt, without fully understanding the total exposure is about 100 times greater as a function of the $600trillion+ derivatives market that gambling prone British banks are more exposed to in terms of per capita then virtually any other nation on the planet.
Forget the official UK statistics of £1 trillion of public sector debt, total actual debt and liabilities are in excess of £11 trillion and the fools in Coalition Government are now contemplating Britain borrowing money in the name of UK tax payers to throw into the Greek black hole!
For instance the mainstream broadcast press smugly declares that British banks exposure the Greek government debt is just £2.5 billion. However throw in the derivatives exposure that also includes Portugal and Ireland and then the figure jumps to at least £350 billion with a figure approaching £800 billion or about 60% of GDP as the default contagion would not stop with Portugal as soon Spain and Italy would also follow their PIIGS brethren over the cliff, which would be enough to trigger a collapse of the global banking system as the earlier article ( Nov 2010 - Global Sovereign Debt Default Bankruptcy Bailout and Contagion Risk Analysis) illustrated the risk each country on its own posed to the global financial system if one were to default on their debts.
The November 2010 analysis treated Greece and Ireland as being on life support pending inevitable bankruptcy with Portugal not far behind that combined present a contagion risk factor to the global financial system of about 22%, an eventuality that the worlds financial system could survive, if only it could be halted to the peripheral euro-zone which it would not as soon Spain and Italy would join the collapse as their bonds are dumped sending interest rates soaring towards where Greece debt currently trades, which would be more than enough to bring about a collapse of the Euro-zone and within hours of which a collapse of the whole global financial system including that of the United States as all fiat currency is dumped for hard assets i.e. an hyperinflationary collapse event
This is the key - once contagion smashed into the big European states, spaking total chaos on the market, it would very quickly cross the channel to the United States (too big to fail) leading to total banking collapse.
This is what the BIS warned in their report yesterday...
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/jun20 ... -j28.shtml
“We should make no mistake here: the market turbulence surrounding the fiscal crises in Greece, Ireland and Portugal would pale beside the devastation that would follow a loss of investor confidence in the sovereign debt of a major economy,” the report said.
A crisis of confidence in a major economy would develop suddenly rather than as a gradual build-up because “either you enjoy the confidence of the markets or you don’t. Therefore, a loss of confidence in the ability and willingness of a sovereign to repay its debt is more likely to be characterised by a sudden change in sentiment than by a gradual evolution