Gas alert as demand and prices rise

[woodburner]

Winter is usually the time the frail and elderly pop their clogs in the natural world. It's one of the things that happens, though we live in a namby-pamby world now where people see such a natural function as unacceptable.

[vtsnowedin]

Winter is usually the time the frail and elderly pop their clogs in the natural world. It's one of the things that happens, though we live in a namby-pamby world now where people see such a natural function as unacceptable.

Yes I find it unacceptable for an elderly person that has budgeted their meager income so that rent and utility bills are paid to spend a night in mid winter without heat or lights due to the incompetence of some bureaucrat or the pipe dreams of some environmental wacko movement that has seized control of the government.

[woodburner]

Well that's just failure of an artificial system, and nature asserting itself. In the not too distant future I expect nature to assert itself in a far more dramatic way, and then people will see how fragile their attempts to dominate nature really were. Just because it's a "nice to have" isn't really a reason why frail and old people shouldn't peg out in the winter. It was always thus as part of a natural system which allowed the younger ones to survive on the limited amount of food and other resources available.

[woodburner]

.............the pipe dreams of some environmental wacko movement that has seized control of the government.

What ever do you mean by that?

[vtsnowedin]

Well that's just failure of an artificial system, and nature asserting itself. In the not too distant future I expect nature to assert itself in a far more dramatic way, and then people will see how fragile their attempts to dominate nature really were. Just because it's a "nice to have" isn't really a reason why frail and old people shouldn't peg out in the winter. It was always thus as part of a natural system which allowed the younger ones to survive on the limited amount of food and other resources available.

When Neanderthal remains were first discovered and examined some were found to be elderly that had suffered from sever injuries long before their deaths and burial. It was clear that these individuals had been CARED FOR by the young people they lived with and that demonstrated a level of humanity and civilization that had not been expected by the modern researchers.
I'm at least as civilized as a Neanderthal.
Apparently you are not.

[woodburner]

In the days of the Neanderthal the global population was a tiny bit smaller than it is today, and at the time they may well have had, almost certainly had, enough food and enough space, and their system for sustaining life was one controlled by nature. It was also probable they were more intelligent than modern Homos. They may have had severe injuries, but you don't know about their frailty or lack of it, and maybe theuir status was significant. As for your claim to be as civilised as them, is that relevant? Is it a "good" thing? The Eskimo mothers were expected to kill their children under a certain age in the event their "husband" died or was killed, as the food supply was limited to what can be caught. Was that an "uncivilised" way of life?

Today we have the problem because humans are so much more "civilised" than, say, Neanderthals, that we have overrun the Earth and it is on the point of system collapse, yet still people are not prepared to hand over to nature to allow it to solve the problem. How arrogant is that? But then questions like that are difficult to answer when people are buying their spouses hand guns while at the same time being so "civilised".

[PS_RalphW]

Neanderthals were much more adapted to cold weather climate than us out of Africa types. They were a lot less frail all round.

We are all going to die. The cost of keeping us alive rises exponentially in our last few years, and when we let the old die is a social and moral question, but at its root is a matter of how much resources we spend, and who we spend it on.

We live in an artificial environment called industrial civilisation. It can no longer be sustained in its current form without destroying our own environmental support system. It is going to fall apart, and the sooner we start making rational decisions about managing the decline the better.

[biffvernon]

Winter is usually the time the frail and elderly pop their clogs in the natural world. It's one of the things that happens, though we live in a namby-pamby world now where people see such a natural function as unacceptable.

You call it namby-pamby; I call it civilisation.

When our most vulnerable members of society feel the cold it has nothing to do with energy shortage and everything to do with poverty.

[woodburner]

Winter is usually the time the frail and elderly pop their clogs in the natural world. It's one of the things that happens, though we live in a namby-pamby world now where people see such a natural function as unacceptable.

You call it namby-pamby; I call it civilisation.

When our most vulnerable members of society feel the cold it has nothing to do with energy shortage and everything to do with poverty.

Well we would expect you to call it "civilisation".

When people feel the cold it has something to do with weather, and rather than let nature take its course we interfere, and in many cases keep people alive and suffering far longer than even they want. My mother was a case in point, kept alive on a coctail of big pharma products, with painful ulcers and in a state of confusion.

Tell me, how is that "civilised"?

There was plenty of gas to heat the buildings though.

[biffvernon]

When people feel the cold it has something to do with weather, but mostly it's to do with their clothing and their housing. Quite a few people live at the South Pole, but housing costs rather a lot and their clothes are very special. End of life care is a difficult issue but leaving granny out in the cold is not a good option.

[woodburner]

Given today's society, where people are kept alive under very uncomfortable conditions, it might be the kiner option.

[vtsnowedin]

In the days of the Neanderthal the global population was a tiny bit smaller than it is today, ....
............
But then questions like that are difficult to answer when people are buying their spouses hand guns while at the same time being so "civilised".

The Neanderthal probably gave a spear to his spouse to protect herself and the children from wolves while he was out hunting so My buying a hand gun for mine makes me as civilized as he is.
We are not talking about the very elderly in a nursing home sitting in adult diapers with a feeding tube down their nose.
I at least was talking about otherwise healthy retirees living in their home with no apparent problem until the lights and furnace goes out due to a National shortage of natural gas.

[woodburner]

If they died of cold they were not taht healthy, and/or they were not dressed appropriately and/or they did not move about enough to make some heat. Innuits lived in pretty cold places. There is a Russian saying, "There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.

Wolves dont usually go around in ones, and a spear won't help against a pack. Do yopu have a lot of wolf attacks in your area? Nowadays of course that is another example of the wild loses when man is involved. But then he's civilised and uses a hand gun.

[vtsnowedin]

If they died of cold they were not taht healthy, and/or they were not dressed appropriately and/or they did not move about enough to make some heat. Innuits lived in pretty cold places. There is a Russian saying, "There is no such thing as bad weather, only inappropriate clothing.

Wolves dont usually go around in ones, and a spear won't help against a pack. Do yopu have a lot of wolf attacks in your area? Nowadays of course that is another example of the wild loses when man is involved. But then he's civilised and uses a hand gun.

I expect the grandmothers in our communities some of which weigh about 85 pounds soaking wet have the right to live in much better conditions then a nineteenth century Inuit or Russian.
A Neanderthal woman would be in a cave shelter with the other women and children of the tribe each woman with a weapon and fire and could easily keep a pack of wolves from getting past the entrance. The fact that they did it during an ice age lasting 100,000 years demonstrates their success.

[biffvernon]

This report says we won't need coal:

http://green.brightblue.org.uk/publicat ... pajmpjsqlv

http://www.carbonbrief.org/uk-electrici ... -thinktank