Migrant watch (merged topic)

[Little John]

There are lots of good people.

Yesterday, Austrians took to the streets in Vienna, to say that they don’t want Europe to become a “mass grave” for people fleeing conflict in other parts of the world.
At least 20,000 people marched, some holding banners that read “Refugees welcome” and “I don’t want Europe to be a mass grave.”

http://qz.com/492473/ordinary-citizens- ... ve-failed/

A German group which matchmakes citizens willing to share their homes with refugees said it had been overwhelmed by offers of support, with plans in the works for similar schemes in other European countries.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/s ... rs-of-help

The implication of your slimy comments, as per usual, being that anyone who would not do this is baaaaad

You are a quite detestable person

[tpals]

When we have a surplus of housing we can take in extra people.

In 1900 my house had 14 people living in it. Now we are three.
In the 14th century my part of Lincolnshire had a larger population than today.
200 years ago most of the Scottish Highlands had a larger population than today.
We have the technology and wherewithal to build cheap houses quickly and to a better standard of energy performance than the prefabs of the 1940s.

Housing really is not the issue.

Have you made your home available to 11 refugees?

[Snail]

In my mind, if you open your house to 11 strangers from another country you're a nutcase.

Very sorry.

Refugees who reach a safe country but want to travel onward to Germany or the UK shouldn't be called refugees.

[Snail]

This thread is pointless. Here's what'll happen:

nothing much will get done
Lots of migrants will enter
So many, causing a rightward shift
More will enter
A bigger rightward shift
Extreme right

So both types of viewpoints will be pleased. Everybody's happy.



---

Right snail, back in your shell.

[Little John]

I am going to repeat myself here and make this utterly clear to one and all. I do not blame these migrant/refugees (call them what you will, it makes little difference) for fleeing where they have come form or for trying to get into Europe. I and anyone else would do the same. But, we CANNOT let them into Europe. If we do, they will be replaced by hundreds of thousands and then millions. The global systems are failing. The die-off has begun.


We cannot save the world. It's as cold and as brutal as that.

[jonny2mad]

This thread is pointless. Here's what'll happen:

nothing much will get done
Lots of migrants will enter
So many, causing a rightward shift
More will enter
A bigger rightward shift
Extreme right

So both types of viewpoints will be pleased. Everybody's happy.



---

Right snail, back in your shell.

yup And I imagine lots of political violence and mayhem

[Little John]

This thread is pointless. Here's what'll happen:

nothing much will get done
Lots of migrants will enter
So many, causing a rightward shift
More will enter
A bigger rightward shift
Extreme right

So both types of viewpoints will be pleased. Everybody's happy.



---

Right snail, back in your shell.

I won't be happy.

To be honest, I don't know what the hell my politics are any-more.

My intellectual instincts are libertarian.

My ethical instincts are socialist. It used to be a fairly libertarian form of socialism I subscribed to. But. I now realise that this notion was a luxury born of the abundance of the hydrocarbon age and will not stand the test of the reality that is heading our way. Consequently and, paradoxically, given my personal libertarian intellectual instincts, I find myself leaning more and more to an authoritarian socialism as time goes on.

My social instincts, on the other hand, are communalist (not communist).

I can't stand racists and bigots. But, equally, I cannot abide limp-minded, white, middle class guilt that certain white middle class people feel compelled to wear on their sleeves as some kind of badge of self-flagellatory honour. I see no dishonour, when push comes to shove, in supporting your family first, your community second, your nation third and the rest of the world with what you have left to give. This is not born of some kind of ideology. It is born of rational common sense. In a world turning to shit, the first person you will need to rely upon to catch you when you fall is your neighbour. But, you cannot rely on them if they cannot rely on you in turn.

I suspect, when push comes to shove, I am not that different from most of the rest of my fellow countrymen and women.

[jonny2mad]

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6423/ ... emographic

[kenneal - lagger]

It would seem that the countries which have seen invasions and colonisation, Eastern European countries, in the last century or so are against migration while the ones that have done the invading/colonisation, Germany and France are generally for it. Guilt complex again?

[fuzzy]

Not guilt. Some of the people in ex empire countries are still making money from their old colonies. This is old and therefore has strong banking ties. The bankers tell government what to do. If you wonder why the UK is screwed, nearly everyone in gov executive positions is from private schools where you are:

Trained for the East india trading company

Told it's a happy rainbow world. This is simply because many of your fellow school kids are international. Their parents or gov pay good money to the school, hence the PC brainwashing. Those who miss this start in life catch up quick on their PPE or law courses before they fit 'the club'.

[biffvernon]

...the ones that have done the invading/colonisation, Germany and France are generally for it. Guilt complex again?

The UK has done more invasion and colonisation than any other nation, or have you forgotten the maps that showed so much of the world coloured pink?

True humanity is rearing it's beautiful face:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 81522.html

Even Yvette Cooper seems to have swept that dreadful Labour mug into the dustpan of history.

[biffvernon]

Superb article by Owen Jones, and anybody who wants the refugee problem to turn xenophobia into humanity would benefit from reading all of it:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... statistics

Other than a tiny proportion of sociopaths, our species is naturally empathetic. It is only when we strip the humanity from people – when we stop imagining them as being quite human like us – that our empathetic nature is eroded. That allows us either to accept the misery of others, or even to inflict it on them. Rightwing newspapers hunt down extreme and unsympathetic stories of refugees, and we fight back with statistics. Instead, we need to show the reality of refugees: their names, their faces, their ambitions and their fears, their loves, what they fled.

Yes, the solution to global human misery is not to extricate a tiny lucky number and parachute them into richer countries. We need the west to take responsibility for disaster zones it helped create, like Libya and Iraq. We should pressure our governments to do more to solve situations that compel human beings to flee. At home, communities with higher levels of both migrants and refugees should be given extra resources and support. But as long as there is misery, people will flee it, and a tiny proportion will come this far. If we want to help them, we need to change public attitudes by humanising refugees. If we fail, then more and more women, men and children will spend their last few hours drowning in seas or suffocating in lorries. It is as bleak as that.

[biffvernon]

Not sure that Iceland tops the invasion/colonisation league table (did they invade Greenland?) or has much to feel guilty about.

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-01/thou ... eir-homes/

Over 12,000 Icelanders have joined a Facebook page offering to take Syrian refugees into their home, prompting the government to rethink its current policy.

The page was started by Icelandic author Bryndis Bjorgvinsdottir, who encouraged her fellow countrymen to speak out in favour of those needing asylum. Within 24 hours, over 10,000 people had responded.

The government had previously announced plans to take in 50 refugees from the Syrian conflict - over four million people have fled Syria since a civil war erupted there in 2011.

Prime Minister Sigmund David Gunnlaugsson now says a special council comprised of several ministers will map Iceland's resources to see how many refugees could be taken and said the government now had no fixed number.

[jonny2mad]

Superb article by Owen Jones, and anybody who wants the refugee problem to turn xenophobia into humanity would benefit from reading all of it:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... statistics

Other than a tiny proportion of sociopaths, our species is naturally empathetic. It is only when we strip the humanity from people – when we stop imagining them as being quite human like us – that our empathetic nature is eroded. That allows us either to accept the misery of others, or even to inflict it on them. Rightwing newspapers hunt down extreme and unsympathetic stories of refugees, and we fight back with statistics. Instead, we need to show the reality of refugees: their names, their faces, their ambitions and their fears, their loves, what they fled.

Yes, the solution to global human misery is not to extricate a tiny lucky number and parachute them into richer countries. We need the west to take responsibility for disaster zones it helped create, like Libya and Iraq. We should pressure our governments to do more to solve situations that compel human beings to flee. At home, communities with higher levels of both migrants and refugees should be given extra resources and support. But as long as there is misery, people will flee it, and a tiny proportion will come this far. If we want to help them, we need to change public attitudes by humanising refugees. If we fail, then more and more women, men and children will spend their last few hours drowning in seas or suffocating in lorries. It is as bleak as that.

The germans have names, faces, ambitions and fears, and loves, but owen jones whose a friend of a friend and a idiot or you dont seem to care about the people who are against losing their homes .

So your empathy is partial and biased and fake, and given to the invader not the invaded .

[jonny2mad]

http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... -refugees/
Five men have been arrested as they attempted to cross the Bulgarian-Macedonian border with decapitation videos and Islamic State propaganda on their phones. The terrorist suspects had been posing as refugees.

Bulgarian authorities near the Gyueshevo border checkpoint detained the five men, aged between 20 and 24, late on Wednesday, Bulgarian broadcaster NOVA TV reported.

The men were stopped by a border guard, who they attempted to bribe with a “wad of dollars.” However, they were searched and Islamic State propaganda, specific Jihadists prayers and decapitation videos were found on their phones.

in February, the Turkish intelligence service warned police in an internal memo that up to 3,000 trained jihadists are seeking to cross into Turkey from Syria and Iraq, who could then travel through Bulgaria and Hungry into western Europe. And in May, a Libyan government adviser warned Islamic State operatives were being “smuggled to Europe in migrant boats.”

At the time of the comments, UKIP leader Nigel Farage warned: “When ISIS say they want to flood our continent with half a million Islamic extremists they mean it, and there is nothing in this document [Common European Asylum Policy] that will stop them.

“I fear we face a direct threat to our civilisation if we allow large numbers of people from that war torn region into Europe.”

you have the french saying isis are smuggling weapons into france to take over parts of france, you have "refugees" murdering non muslim refugees while traveling in the boats to cross into europe . your basically letting in a trojan horse .

Isis have also asked brits to stay in the uk and fight jihad here

And any german who cheers will deeply regret what they are doing