Petition for vote of no confidence in Jeremy *unt

madibe · Post by **madibe** » 16 Feb 2016, 00:54

JohnHemming2 &UCE... please let me have the secret

4 hours John?

That's impressive. But probably shady

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 16 Feb 2016, 07:24

It is because it is a profit share from a partnership.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 16 Feb 2016, 07:52

maudibe wrote:JohnHemming2 &UCE... please let me have the secret

What secret is that then?

(293,000...)

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 16 Feb 2016, 22:08

300,000

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 17 Feb 2016, 02:11

I am firmly of the opinion that the Conservative Party are trying to engineer the collapse of the NHS so that it has to be replaced with something "better" that can be said by them to work. If they can engineer a deficiency in the number of doctors and nurses so that the system just breaks down they can then get a private system in to run it. The changes to the migrant rules requiring migrant workers, nurses included, to earn over £35k will exacerbate the nurse recruitment problem and is part of the campaign. the alternative is that the government are completely incompetent. Either way they aren't doing a very good job to the majority of the people.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 17 Feb 2016, 09:03

Very true, Ken. It's a wonder how any right-thinking person could ever have supported the Conservative Party.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 17 Feb 2016, 09:26

biffvernon wrote:Very true, Ken. It's a wonder how any right-thinking person could ever have supported the Conservative Party.

24% of the voting age population of this country.

We are being f***ed over because 1 in 4 people are short-sighted, mean-minded morons and, of the other three, more than one have lost all hope and don't even bother voting. The remainder specifically voted for non-Tory parties.

3 in 4 voting age people did not vote for this government.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 17 Feb 2016, 10:08

The fact is, however, that some austerity is necessary. Many people know this and if a political party proposes a government programme which will create havoc people vote against that.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 17 Feb 2016, 10:50

kenneal - lagger wrote:I am firmly of the opinion that the Conservative Party are trying to engineer the collapse of the NHS so that it has to be replaced with something "better" that can be said by them to work. If they can engineer a deficiency in the number of doctors and nurses so that the system just breaks down they can then get a private system in to run it. The changes to the migrant rules requiring migrant workers, nurses included, to earn over £35k will exacerbate the nurse recruitment problem and is part of the campaign. the alternative is that the government are completely incompetent. Either way they aren't doing a very good job to the majority of the people.

And this comes as a surprise to anybody?

For its entire, rather long history, the Conservative Party has represented the interests of the richest 10% to 20% of the population, and the establishment. It has never, ever, given a rat's arse about the other 80% to 90%. There's only two reasons why people ever voted, or vote, for them. The first is that they belong to the richest 10-20% and are sufficiently mean and immoral that they also couldn't give a rat's arse about anybody else. The second is that they are too stupid to understand that the tories don't give a rat's arse about them.

All the other reasons - stuff about meritocracy and belief in the free market - that's all bullshit. The tories believe in those things just as long as it works in the interest of the richest 10-20%. When it doesn't, as in the case of inheritance tax or financial corruption, then any sense of underlying principles goes flying out the window. It is about preserving and increasing the wealth and power of the rich, and that is all it is about.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 17 Feb 2016, 11:33

johnhemming2 wrote:The fact is, however, that some austerity is necessary. Many people know this and if a political party proposes a government programme which will create havoc people vote against that.

There's austerity and austerity. The current flavour is designed to transfer wealth from most people to a small minority. It is working very well.
The sort of austerity that is needed would see a transfer of wealth from all those people in the world whose wealth is above the global mean (that's us) to those below it. And furthermore, for the sake of planetary sustainability, austerity has to proceed so that the global mean consumption is itself shifted downwards (by quite a lot).

So yes, I'm in favour of austerity too. There remains a difference between the 'left' and the 'greens'.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 17 Feb 2016, 11:43

The austerity is about cutting government spending in real terms. Jeremy Corbyn's election as Labour leader makes it more likely the tories would win because so many of his policies are nuts. Even Little John (I assume) would vote Tory to stop Jeremy Corbyn having a complete open border policy. I am open to being corrected on this, however.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 17 Feb 2016, 12:12

"....no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party.....So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.....do not listen to what they are saying now.....If you are selling shoddy stuff you have to be a good salesman. But I warn you they have not changed, or if they have they are slightly worse than they were...."

Aneurin Bevan - (30 April 1946)

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 17 Feb 2016, 12:22

I will take that as a correction.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 17 Feb 2016, 15:51

UndercoverElephant wrote: For its entire, rather long history, the Conservative Party has represented the interests of the richest 10% to 20% of the population, and the establishment. It has never, ever, given a rat's arse about the other 80% to 90%. There's only two reasons why people ever voted, or vote, for them. The first is that they belong to the richest 10-20% and are sufficiently mean and immoral that they also couldn't give a rat's arse about anybody else. The second is that they are too stupid to understand that the tories don't give a rat's arse about them.

All the other reasons - stuff about meritocracy and belief in the free market - that's all bullshit. The tories believe in those things just as long as it works in the interest of the richest 10-20%. When it doesn't, as in the case of inheritance tax or financial corruption, then any sense of underlying principles goes flying out the window. It is about preserving and increasing the wealth and power of the rich, and that is all it is about.

I have to say this seems a pretty good summary to me.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 17 Feb 2016, 17:01

And in the late 60s and 70s the Labour Party represented the interests of the Communist Party and was dragging Britain into bankruptcy. No, sorry, dragged Britain into bankruptcy. And in the 90s Bleh/Brown didn't do much better. And during the coalition many LibDem MPs took the corporation's shilling and joined the Prostitute State.

While I like the fact that Corbyn isn't a fully paid up member of the Prostitute State many senior Labour Party MPs are, which is why there is so much opposition to him in the Parliamentary Party, so Labour is split and useless. While much of Labour's approach would be the same as the Tories, corporate cowtowing, much of Corbyn's approach would be equally unacceptable to me and much of the electorate.

The Green Party would have the country overrun with economic migrants. How sustainable is that?

UKIP is the the right wing of the Tory party undercover with many tendencies which I would never support.

Just when much of the non voters have found someone honest to vote for in Corbyn I am finding that I do not have anyone to vote for apart from my MP who I regard as honest and honourable and that's not something found in most politicians. Unfortunately although honest he is finding his loyalty to his public school chums trumps what his green beliefs demand.

I'm not sure whether I am going to be voting next time.