Ukraine Watch...

[Vortex2]

I hope you’re happy that we’ve contributed to the murder of husbands, sons and fathers of whatever nationality and it distresses me that you seem to be eagerly looking forward to more.

Exactly.

Our antipodean friend sitting in his armchair 12000 miles away from the frontline is the keenest warrior.

[Default0ptions]

Warships are just sitting ducks in an age of drone warfare and hypersonic glide weapons.

This is not new.

It has been accepted for decades that capital ships would all be sunk within 3 weeks of WW3 starting.

The Russians planned to attack NATO ships with large number of air launched missiles from large groups of aircraft.

The missiles would have had nuclear warheads.

What really worries me is that level of insouciance displayed by our newspapers, radio and tv about the real threat of this turning serious.

It really doesn’t matter how much we prattle on about this not being on the verge of an existential crisis - because if Russia thinks it is then we all get nuked.

Geoff just dismissing me as a Russian troll is totally irrelevant to the actual situation.

I can still wholeheartedly recommend his mushroom book and his foraging guide though!

[Catweazle]

Before getting carried away condemning armchair warriors and labelling supporters of Ukraine as warmongers it's worth remembering that Putin has the power to stop the slaughter immediately by simply calling off his invasion.

[Default0ptions]

Before getting carried away condemning armchair warriors and labelling supporters of Ukraine as warmongers it's worth remembering that Putin has the power to stop the slaughter immediately by simply calling off his invasion.

Yeah. You’ve failed to take on board that Russia regards this as an existential threat. It doesn’t matter what you think. If Russia considers itself sufficiently threatened IT WILL NUKE. That’s what mutually assured destruction means.

It DOESN’T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK

The US and NATO could also call this off in an instant.

Do try to get your head around this: it doesn’t matter what you or anyone else thinks. If Russia feels it’s an existential threat they really will go nuclear.

And then I lose, you lose, all our children lose, the whole world will lose.

It’s NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK

[Ralphw2]

In the last couple of days this thread has been dominated by two posters congratulating each other on their anti western interpretations of every possible outcome and news item. This is a tactic I have seen on other web sites in an attempt to shut down discussions, where 5 or 10 rambling posts by the same person are posted sequentially.

[Catweazle]

Before getting carried away condemning armchair warriors and labelling supporters of Ukraine as warmongers it's worth remembering that Putin has the power to stop the slaughter immediately by simply calling off his invasion.

Yeah. You’ve failed to take on board that Russia regards this as an existential threat.

Really ? Russia considered the existence of some right wingers close to the border to be an existential threat ?

Even if Ukraine had joined NATO would that really have threatened Russia's existence ?

I'm not buying that.

[Vortex2]

British cruise missiles have just taken out a Russian landing ship and submarine.

I fail to see:

a: How Britain has any reason to attack the Russian navy.

b: Why the safety of my myself and my family is put at risk by some war mongering d*ckhead in London.

[Default0ptions]

Oh wonderful Ralph. Have I upset you by posting opinions that you don’t agree with?

I post here because I’ve found you all to be articulate interlocutors, very useful in situations like the Covid crisis and so helpful in forming my response to that.

All of you regulars here have opinions and thoughts and strategies for dealing with the complex issues of a post fossil fuel that I’m very lucky to be able to draw on.

You are all, as a group, some of the most intelligent and insightful people that I’ve been lucky to find and I really value your thoughts and interactions.

If you really can’t cope with my differences of opinion with you, you can always just simply ignore me and stay in the shelter of your echo chamber.

[Default0ptions]

“ Really ? Russia considered the existence of some right wingers close to the border to be an existential threat ?

Even if Ukraine had joined NATO would that really have threatened Russia's existence ?

I'm not buying that.”

It doesn’t matter if you ‘buy it’

Russia sees it as an existential threat. It’s got some parallels to the Cuban missile crisis.

This is a very serious global crisis and none of the people who can trigger a nuclear exchange even know your name and couldn’t care less if they did.

You don’t have to buy it.

Thinking that you are so important that you can fix an international crisis simply because you’re ‘not buying that’
really takes the biscuit in ludicrous self importance.

[Vortex2]

FWIW the USA has now spent $100 billion on Ukraine so far.

This is roughly the same as the Ukrainian current GDP.

However it is a tiny fraction of the Russian GDP.

Note: This is roughly what HS2 will cost.

[mr brightside]

Oh wonderful Ralph. Have I upset you by posting opinions that you don’t agree with?

I post here because I’ve found you all to be articulate interlocutors, very useful in situations like the Covid crisis and so helpful in forming my response to that.

All of you regulars here have opinions and thoughts and strategies for dealing with the complex issues of a post fossil fuel that I’m very lucky to be able to draw on.

You are all, as a group, some of the most intelligent and insightful people that I’ve been lucky to find and I really value your thoughts and interactions.

If you really can’t cope with my differences of opinion with you, you can always just simply ignore me and stay in the shelter of your echo chamber.

People tend to focus on their differences on here, which are few and far between compared to their common shared interests and values. I think that in a boozer we'd all be the best of friends, and everyone would be offering to get a round in.

[Ralphw2]

BBC reports that a Russian fighter fired two missiles at an RAF comms monitoring spy plane over the Black Sea last year. The plane was monitoring the comms of the pilot at the time. The pilot was confused as to his engagement rules at the time and got a royal telling off from his wingman. The first missile missed and the second was a dud. The Russian MOD blamed a technical fault, which the UK accepted at the time, as they did not want to escalate over a single pilots incompetance.

[Catweazle]

Thinking that you are so important that you can fix an international crisis simply because you’re ‘not buying that’
really takes the biscuit in ludicrous self importance.

Deliberately misunderstanding does you no favours, you know as well as anyone that my meaning was that I don't believe Russia saw an "existential crisis". Don't cheapen your arguments, especially to people who haven't called you a troll.

[clv101]

BBC reports that a Russian fighter fired two missiles at an RAF comms monitoring spy plane over the Black Sea last year. The plane was monitoring the comms of the pilot at the time. The pilot was confused as to his engagement rules at the time and got a royal telling off from his wingman. The first missile missed and the second was a dud. The Russian MOD blamed a technical fault, which the UK accepted at the time, as they did not want to escalate over a single pilots incompetance.

This is quite a positive story - we (UK) could have taken this episode to escalate the situation, but chose not to. However, it seems the Americans (via a secret intelligence leak ) want to make more of it now, a year on. But the MoD, commenting on the leaks say a "significant proportion of the content of these reports is untrue, manipulated or both".

So what's going on? UK look like the responsible party, Russians look incompetent and the American's are looking for any excuse to stir up shit?

[Ralphw2]

My guess is that the US mentioned it now to head off Russian complaints about the use of British missiles to sink submarines by saying “you fired first”.