'We will be able to live to 1,000'

[Ludwig]

Ludwig, I only recently discovered this stuff through a recent exploration on the internet of evidence of advanced ancient civilisations... of course the latter research was mainly a waste of time (although there is some evidence of ancient flight being discovered) but during a look at Adams bridge (a apparently natural formation which some Hindus think is a ancient bridge) I discovered the Hindi theory of time.

Whats interesting is that it goes in cycles, so that although we are currently in Kali Yuga, at some point we will enter a new yuga where mankind can live to a 1000.

Of course, if the scientist above is correct, that is now scientifically feasible. Somestimes I wonder if the commong myth (across all cultures) of a pre-historic Golden Era actually happened. We all dismiss it as myth, but maybe before we spoke and verbally communicated we had communicated telephathy and had access to ways of extending life through the mind??

Maybe it is a load of bullshit, but I always like to keep my mind open.

Well in ancient times, most theories of the world and of the nature of reality were, of necessity, largely guesswork. But I think guiding that guesswork was always intuition, and spiritual insights gained by a small number of skilled mystics. There is a lot of wisdom in ancient thinking, even where the details are way out.

Science still doesn't properly understand the nature of time: sure, we can feed it into our equations, but we've yet to discover why it seems to run only in one direction. (The laws of physics don't distinguish between going forward and backward in time, which is why retrocausation is theoretically possible. I know the Second Law of Thermodynamics says that entropy increases as time moves forwards, but from what I understand, no one has yet explained why time has to move forwards at all, or how negative entropy arose in the first place.)

Other ancient disciplines like astrology are fascinating from a philosophical point of view, and contain a lot of wisdom, regardless of whether one accepts their validity.

[kenneal - lagger]

There is a theory that the cycle of Ice Ages are a requirement of the continued growth of flora and fauna on the planet. After an Ice Age there is an abundance of minerals in the soil which produces extremely large plants which, in turn, produce very large animals - think mammoths and sabre toothed tigers.

As the Warm Ages goes on the minerals are lost from the soil and plant size and health drop. This somehow has a negative effect on the CO2 content of the atmosphere and another cold spell is started.

I'm not sure about the last paragraph, in fact it is probably a load of b****cks, but the first bit about plant and animal size does ring true. It may have an effect on the age of life as well.

[PS_RalphW]

especially as growing and receding ice ages are relatively recent in geological terms. Over billions of years the climate has been through long periods of stable climate, sometimes hotter, sometimes much colder.

I suspect it is something to do with the distribution of the continental plates affecting the weather - we are between two stable climates, one warm, one colder. Long term wobbles in our orbit are enough to tip us into one or the other for a short period - 100,000 years or so.

When the land distribution was different, it affected the weather patterns to keep us locked in one climate or another for tens of millions of years.

[Blue Peter]

As the Warm Ages goes on the minerals are lost from the soil and plant size and health drop. This somehow has a negative effect on the CO2 content of the atmosphere and another cold spell is started.

I'm not sure about the last paragraph, in fact it is probably a load of b****cks, but the first bit about plant and animal size does ring true. It may have an effect on the age of life as well.

Where would the minerals go?

There is an interesting question about the size of animals, those you mention, and even more of the really large dinosaurs,


Peter.

[kenneal - lagger]

Where would the minerals go?

They are made soluble by plants and fungi and then get washed out of the soil and end up in the sea, forming sediments, from where they are recycled, in geological time scales, by uplift and then glaciation and erosion.

[kenneal - lagger]

[Other ancient disciplines like astrology are fascinating from a philosophical point of view, and contain a lot of wisdom, regardless of whether one accepts their validity.

I've always thought that astrology gets it wrong by using the time of birth as the governing factor. Surely the time of conception is the time when one's genetics are chosen and the minute molecular changes that take place then are more likely to be subject to the varying gravitational and magnetic pull of the solar system. I do appreciate that it is more difficult to find out the exact date and time of your conception, though, as it is not always exactly nine months before the date and time of birth.

[Ludwig]

[Other ancient disciplines like astrology are fascinating from a philosophical point of view, and contain a lot of wisdom, regardless of whether one accepts their validity.

I've always thought that astrology gets it wrong by using the time of birth as the governing factor. Surely the time of conception is the time when one's genetics are chosen and the minute molecular changes that take place then are more likely to be subject to the varying gravitational and magnetic pull of the solar system. I do appreciate that it is more difficult to find out the exact date and time of your conception, though, as it is not always exactly nine months before the date and time of birth.

My view is that there's no "mechanism" as such for things like astrology - it's all to do with ideas having existence outside individual minds.

Having experimented with self-hypnosis, I've learned, to my own satisfaction, how powerfully beliefs and ideas can shape reality. Indeed, one interpretation of quantum mechanics is that consciousness helps to shape the material world.

Many ancient Eastern philosophies and religions take the view that consciousness precedes matter, not vice versa. It took me some time to abandon my Western resistance to this idea, but now I've more or less come round to it. Part of it involves accepting that there is no "ultimate answer", but rather that every idea is an irreducible, self-contained "truth". Not sure how well I've expressed that - it's difficult to frame in post-Enlightenment Western concepts.

[kenneal - lagger]

Many ancient Eastern philosophies and religions take the view that consciousness precedes matter, not vice versa.

I can go along with that, but then it brings up the idea of a god, the original conscientiousness, who started it all and imagined the "solid" world into being.

Whose matrix do we live in?

[Lord Beria3]

Many ancient Eastern philosophies and religions take the view that consciousness precedes matter, not vice versa. It took me some time to abandon my Western resistance to this idea, but now I've more or less come round to it. Part of it involves accepting that there is no "ultimate answer", but rather that every idea is an irreducible, self-contained "truth". Not sure how well I've expressed that - it's difficult to frame in post-Enlightenment Western concepts.

Very interesting. Could you explain that in more detail, I am very interested in this area.

[Ludwig]

Many ancient Eastern philosophies and religions take the view that consciousness precedes matter, not vice versa.

I can go along with that, but then it brings up the idea of a god, the original conscientiousness, who started it all and imagined the "solid" world into being.

Whose matrix do we live in?

But I think to assume the idea of an "original" consciousness may be missing the point. My hypothesis is that the "ultimate consciousness" stretches across time, including all thoughts and events that ever were and that ever will be. There is some laboratory evidence - needless to say, hotly disputed - that the human mind can influence quantum events in the past.

The way I see it, the "solid" world doesn't need to be imagined into being, because it isn't fundamentally separate from the world of the imagination in the first place. The further you drill down into the fundamental constituents of matter, the more this ambiguity becomes apparent. I think the "solid" world might be described as "concentrated possibility" - it's not fundamentally different from the world of the imagination, but is merely imagination "sharpened" by virtue of being "very probable indeed".

What we call esoteric or paranormal phenomena may be the effect of "mutations of improbability", whereby events that don't follow the default laws of physics elbow their way into reality. Skilled mystics, I suspect, can harness the processes whereby these unusual events take place and to some extent control them. But in general, there does seem to be a trade-off - the more "real" a strange event is (or the more strange a real event is ), the less control the human mind has over it. That's why it's risky to mess with the occult - there is a lot of power there, but it takes a strong mind to be able to handle it. Suffice to say that I've learned this to my cost.

All theories of course. I don't have definitive proof of any of this.

[Lord Beria3]

Interesting.

I had a flatmate who was specialisied in AI and general quantum physics area. When I informed him of PO - his first reaction was to debate whether thinking about the potentially negative implications of PO (shortages, war etc) would somehow affect the outcome.

At first I didn't understand what he was talking about. Apparently individuals have the capacity to shape the past and future and quantum physics has discovered this, bizarre as it may be.

So, yeah, its a very interesting area. What it suggests is that there is a space for the occult to somehow shape things. I personally stay away from this kind of thing as it gives me the creeps... but I do sometimes wonder how history can be shaped by these quantum forces.

Ludwig, Im sure you have heard of the multi-universe theory, a infinity of universes, and this is one area where maybe the ghost stuff comes into play. It certainly suggests that reality is less solid than we think.

Iain M Banks novel Transition explores these ideas, I recommend you read it.

[Ludwig]

Interesting.

I had a flatmate who was specialisied in AI and general quantum physics area. When I informed him of PO - his first reaction was to debate whether thinking about the potentially negative implications of PO (shortages, war etc) would somehow affect the outcome.

That has crossed my mind, to the extent where I wonder if I shouldn't keep my doomerish thoughts to myself I am strongly of the opinion that beliefs and expectations affect events in the real world - I have enough personal experience of it to convince me this is the case.

Also research shows that people who expect to be lucky, are - and the opposite applies to people who are pessimists!

But PO is something that involves the fate of the human race, not just individuals, so I don't think that one person thinking positive thoughts can change it. In fact, I think there is such a thing as the collective unconscious, and I wonder if the collective unconscious of the human race actually WANTS a disaster to happen, because we've run out of challenges.

In the same way that individuals who've achieved everything they wanted in life lose the will to carry on, I think the human race is now at the point of thinking, "What is there left to do but die?". The human race actually wants to die.

That's not to say that we as individuals want to die, but we all are part of the human "project" and to a greater or lesser extent tap into the collective unconscious.

I feel that the "mind over matter" principle can be used to affect small events in our lives, but not the general course our lives take. It's possible to wish for too much - if that happens, typically the wish comes true, but brings suffering in its wake. Again, I've enough personal experience of this to convince me there's something in it.

There's a song by Bruce Springsteen whose chorus goes, "With every wish there comes a curse." Perhaps the collective human wish for virtually free energy is about to deliver its associated curse?

Ludwig, Im sure you have heard of the multi-universe theory, a infinity of universes, and this is one area where maybe the ghost stuff comes into play. It certainly suggests that reality is less solid than we think.

Yes, I've heard of it - it's intriguing. The problem with the possibility/reality polarity is the question of what happens to all the possibilities that never became reality? What's so special about the possibility that DID become reality? The multiverse theory may help bridge that gap. Interesting thought.

[Ludwig]

Many ancient Eastern philosophies and religions take the view that consciousness precedes matter, not vice versa. It took me some time to abandon my Western resistance to this idea, but now I've more or less come round to it. Part of it involves accepting that there is no "ultimate answer", but rather that every idea is an irreducible, self-contained "truth". Not sure how well I've expressed that - it's difficult to frame in post-Enlightenment Western concepts.

Very interesting. Could you explain that in more detail, I am very interested in this area.

Hmm... Well, take the phenomenon of qualia, the subjective essences of perceptions. You can't reduce the experience of the colour red, or of the feeling of love or anger, to any set of constituent parts. Sure, you can say that there is an objective corollary of it in the actions of neurons - but you can't construct the sensation from this knowledge: the sensation takes place as a single irreducible feeling.

You can take this idea further and say that, for example, belief in the Christian God is a single "feeling" - perhaps God exists simply because people believe in Him? Or, at least, He exists for those who believe in Him.

Similarly with things like astrology. My theory is that there doesn't need to be a mechanism for it - if it works, it's because as an idea it took hold and manifested in the world - perhaps even became manifest retroactively, so that one might find evidence for it even before it was concocted as an idea.

I read of a study of birds that discovered how to get milk bottle tops off. Apparently the discovery happened virtually simultaneously in areas a long way apart - as though the idea entered reality and got "picked up" independently in several places.

Carl Jung talks about coincidences in his book "Synchronicity"; it sometimes seems as though the inner and outer worlds reflect each other. E.g. Jung was talking to a patient about a dream with a scarab beetle in it, and at that moment a beetle closely related to the scarab appeared at the window. In short, my hypothesis is that ideas have a life of their own. I've also observed that coincidences seem to come in groups - you can get "on a roll" of coincidences; but as soon as you get excited about it, they stop happening. To properly access this realm of existence you need to develop a "hands off" approach, e.g. through meditation: desire things to happen, but not get attached to that desire.

[kenneal - lagger]

Perhaps this is where praying to a saint for a miracle in Christianity comes from: enough people affecting a course of action by thinking/praying about it.

[Ludwig]

Perhaps this is where praying to a saint for a miracle in Christianity comes from: enough people affecting a course of action by thinking/praying about it.

Didn't they pray for rain in the Deep South recently - and they got some.

There seems to be an exponential element to WSHappening. For example, if you get a load of people together, the majority can usually bend spoons under guidance from someone who's done it before - but it's a lot more difficult to bend one on your own, especially if you've never done it before (see http://forkbend.com/ and http://www.jackhouck.com/pk.shtml). I've never tried it but would like to sometime