Brexit process

[Little John]

Nissan have said, very clearly, they are not making X-trails in Sunderland due to emission laws in Europe. The car will be built for the Asian market. No job losses, nothing to do with Brexit.

The nonsense and scaremongering is nothing short of pathetic.

The mainstream media and Neo Liberal globalists along with their bourgeois cheerleaders in the wider population, of which we have our own share on here, are nothing less than traitors to this nation.

The mask has slipped and the old, ugly, sneering, class-based disdain, we all suspected was still there, of the working class of your own nation has been exposed.

It's now time to call this out for what it is, which is no less than treason against one's country and fellow citizens.

This will not be forgotten or forgiven.

[RevdTess]

ugly, sneering, class-based disdain

Honestly though, do you not see how this describes almost your every post? Being on the winning side of the referendum doesn't give you the right to be so unnecessarily abusive. I've been trying to see things from the Leave perspective. It would really help bring us together if others would try to understand and empathise with the Remain fears as well.

[Mark]

The nonsense and scaremongering is nothing short of pathetic.

Vodafone (Telecommunication) Warned that it could move its headquarters out of the UK
Capita plc (Professional services) Some of the company's potential clients delayed their decision making process because of Brexit
Jaguar Land Rover (Automotive) The company will introduce new tariffs, becoming less competitive and putting into risk several job positions
Lloyd's of London (Insurance) Axed plans for 9 billion pounds share placing because of post-Brexit market instability
Virgin Group (Conglomerate) Axed a deal that could be worth of 3000 jobs as a direct consequence to Brexit
John Lewis (Retail) Warned that prices could increase
EasyJet (Airline) Applied for an external-UK air operating certificate
Hiscox (Insurance) Considered having a subsidiary in Europe, for example in Malta or Luxembourg
Nissan (Automotive) Delayed some investments in its plant in Sunderland because of Brexit
Deloitte (Professional services) Affirmed that the single market is less important than the ability of bringing workers with diverse skills to the UK
Visa (Financial services) Considered to cut job positions in the UK, in favor of a relocation on the European continent
Barclays (Banking and financial services) Left the crisis mode despite the large fall in banks' share prices after Brexit vote
HSBC (Banking and financial services) Ruled out moving from its London office, even though it was considered an option initially
Oliver Wyman (Management consulting) Expected that more than 70 million job positions and £10 billion depends on the results of Brexit negotiation
Siemens (Conglomerate) Put the wind turbine's investment on hold and it needs to replan the strategy
Tesco (Retail) Found an agreement with Unilever after that the supplier was asking for a rise of 10%
Sources: Financial Times and BBC

Plus all the numerous SMEs that you don't hear about....

All Scaremongering ??

[Mark]

ugly, sneering, class-based disdain

Honestly though, do you not see how this describes almost your every post? Being on the winning side of the referendum doesn't give you the right to be so unnecessarily abusive.

LJ will either ignore this...., or say it's a reaction to 'Remainers' provoking him.
Many people have disappeared from this board due to the level of abuse.
Hence fewer people read his views.
Self defeating ??

[kenneal - lagger]

One that I know about without doing any research is that Triodos Bank have opened a UK subsidiary. I wonder how many other companies are doing the same thing.

[kenneal - lagger]

....... I've been trying to see things from the Leave perspective. It would really help bring us together if others would try to understand and empathise with the Remain fears as well.

Tess, you and Mark have not commented on my post at the top of this page. You Remainers seem to think that the "nice, benign" EU will carry on as it is now when with every setback or even hiccup over the years the EU has gone for "Ever Closer Union."

There are massive systemic economic problems in Europe and especially the Eurozone and they're not getting better. They cover them up for a few years but then they bite back with even greater ferocity later on. The Greek crisis is turning into the Italian crisis with a banking collapse ten times the size of the Greek one in the offing. And you really expect us to want to stay in for that.

If the EU gets their way and we stay in the next stop will be an EU army with central taxation to pay for it. Once they have central taxation started, we will find that there was something in the treaty that enables the European Court to bring all taxation to the centre. If they don't do it that way there will be another tfreaty and we will be offered the choice in a referendum to leave the EU or to join the eurozone! Which way would you votfe then? We will then have to join the Eurozone and then we will be completely buggered.

[eatyourveg]

ugly, sneering, class-based disdain

Honestly though, do you not see how this describes almost your every post? Being on the winning side of the referendum doesn't give you the right to be so unnecessarily abusive.

LJ will either ignore this...., or say it's a reaction to 'Remainers' provoking him.
Many people have disappeared from this board due to the level of abuse.
Hence fewer people read his views.
Self defeating ??

On the other hand, he won't have any problem getting his money back from the charm school. Does remind me of RGR.

[Mark]

....... I've been trying to see things from the Leave perspective. It would really help bring us together if others would try to understand and empathise with the Remain fears as well.

Tess, you and Mark have not commented on my post at the top of this page. You Remainers seem to think that the "nice, benign" EU will carry on as it is now when with every setback or even hiccup over the years the EU has gone for "Ever Closer Union."

There are massive systemic economic problems in Europe and especially the Eurozone and they're not getting better. They cover them up for a few years but then they bite back with even greater ferocity later on. The Greek crisis is turning into the Italian crisis with a banking collapse ten times the size of the Greek one in the offing. And you really expect us to want to stay in for that.

If the EU gets their way and we stay in the next stop will be an EU army with central taxation to pay for it. Once they have central taxation started, we will find that there was something in the treaty that enables the European Court to bring all taxation to the centre. If they don't do it that way there will be another tfreaty and we will be offered the choice in a referendum to leave the EU or to join the eurozone! Which way would you votfe then? We will then have to join the Eurozone and then we will be completely buggered.

I can only respond for myself:
1. I'm not particularly a remainer, and I don't think the EU is "nice, and benign" or will carry on 'as is'. However I do believe that membership gives us certain economic advantages. I believe that losing access to the single market will be bad for us economically.
2. We're not a member of the Euro and prior to Brexit there was never any move from the EU to force us to join. We've had this discussion before. If/when the Greek/Italian banks do collapse, it will impact everyone - inside or outside the Eurozone. It doesn't matter - it's all interconnected !!!
3. We would never have agreed to an EU army - if it ever did get that far, we'd have negotiated another opt-out... Daily Mail reader ?
4. Centralised taxation - again, no UK government would agree to it, and lots of other countries would be against that too...
5. If... if... if....?

[vtsnowedin]

Hey Rev. Tess! Whats up with the oversized chart?

[Little John]

ugly, sneering, class-based disdain

Honestly though, do you not see how this describes almost your every post? Being on the winning side of the referendum doesn't give you the right to be so unnecessarily abusive. I've been trying to see things from the Leave perspective. It would really help bring us together if others would try to understand and empathise with the Remain fears as well.

You are kidding... right?

Leavers have endured the most vile abuse, both direct and insinuated, taking the form of, variously:

Bigots
Xenophobes
knuckle dragging morons
racists
fascists
Rabid nationalists
"ill informed"
Gamons

We have had to listen to a BBC for which we are forced to pay a license fee, allow this shite to be spewed into our living rooms for two years

You jokers make me and millions like me sick to our stomachs with your slimy hypocrisy.

[vtsnowedin]

All that may be true LJ but you are far from winning" Miss congeniality" here or anywhere else.

[Lord Beria3]

Little John fights back.

Good on him.

I'm also sick of the Remainer abuse to us Leave voters.

[stumuz1]

Let's calm down chaps.

This forum has guided me to some of the best decisions i have made in my life.

I'm a very confident, coupled with a huge dollop of optimism sort of person.

Thank you all for challenging my views.

From strong debate, good ideas and therefore decisions, float to the top.

[Little John]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/0 ... -movement/

Classism is never far below the surface of Remoaner campaigning. That small but influential section of society that has devoted its moral, political and financial energies to stopping Brexit can barely conceal its disgust for the little people who voted Leave. You can see it in their denunciation of Leave voters as ‘low-information’, in their promotion of graphs showing that the uneducated are more likely than the educated to be Brexiteers, in those New European cartoons in which the plebs are always gargoyle-style imbeciles leaping off cliffs or getting fat on ice-cream as the nation goes to shit thanks to their stupid vote.

There has been more than a whiff of this neo-Victorian elitism in the commentary on Nissan’s decision not to go ahead with production of its diesel SUV X-Trail at its plant in Sunderland in the north of England. Instead the Japanese car-maker will make the new vehicles in Japan. Almost instantly this was turned by media talking-heads and politicians on Twitter into further proof of the devastating impact of Brexit – a devastating impact brought about, these Remoaners whispered, by idiots in places like Sunderland where 61 per cent voted Leave. ‘Look what you ill-informed people have done to yourselves’, has been the tone of much of the Nissan / Sunderland commentary.

In October 2016, five months after the EU referendum, Theresa May assured Nissan that it would suffer no additional tariffs as a result of the Brexit vote and so Nissan agreed to produce the X-Trail in Sunderland. Fast forward to 2019 and Nissan’s Europe boss says X-Trail production will be done in Japan, partly as a result of ‘the continued uncertainty around the UK’s future relationship with the EU’. Cue Remoaner gloating. This is the kind of thing we warned you about, they’re saying.

Entirely unsurprisingly, there’s far more to the story than the Brexit-bashers would have us believe. Indeed, one could say they are engaging in the kind of fact-cherrypicking and intellectual contortionism that they would swiftly denounce as ‘fake news’ or ‘post-truth’ if it were being done by Brexiteers. Nissan bigwigs might namecheck Brexit in their justification for the X-Trail move but that isn’t the half of it. As Auto Express pointed out, Nissan is in a bit of trouble. It produced 10.7 per cent fewer cars in the UK in 2018 than it did in 2017. The X-Trail is a mainly diesel-engined vehicle, but for various reasons – including the Volkswagen emissions-faking scandal of 2016 – sales of diesel-engine vehicles are in freefall. They fell by around 30 per cent last year.

Then there is the question of shipping costs. Yes, the diesel engines for the X-Trail would have come from France, which is a fairly short distance from Sunderland; but the model’s petrol engines would have come all the way from Japan, at huge expense. Many in the anti-Brexit lobby who leapt upon the Nissan story as proof of Brexit’s wickedness, and of their own moral correctness, glossed over what Nissan’s Europe boss said before he said the thing about Brexit uncertainty making things harder for car manufacturers. He said ‘[we] have taken this decision for business reasons’. And all the evidence suggests they have.

Even the Guardian – never shy to blame Brexit for everything bad that happens – had to admit that Nissan’s decision isn’t entirely, or even mainly, a Brexit-driven one. It quoted the opinion of a professor of industry: ‘Falling demand for diesels [is] likely to be the primary factor in Nissan’s decision.’ The Guardian admits that demand for the diesel version of cars already produced at Nissan in Sunderland have slumped sharply: they now account for just 20 per cent of Nissan’s ‘sales mix’, having accounted for 40 per cent two years ago.

[UndercoverElephant]

I would now put the probability of no deal at 90%, a general election at 9%, all other outcomes 1%.

Wow, that's quite a statement.

Earlier I pegged no deal at 5%, I'm hardening against it now, only 1% chance of no deal on 29th March (okay it might technically be no deal on the 29th but with a modified withdrawal agreement in place within a fortnight but I'm not counting that as no deal). I'm around 50/50 for modified withdrawal agreement on 29th (or within a fortnight) and extension (which might involve a GE).

After Tusk's remarks today, I would now put the probability of no deal at >99%. I can see no way that any other outcome is possible. The EU now looks like it has accepted no deal will be the outcome, and is preparing for it. The tory party has also accepted it, and nobody else has the power to stop it.