Migrant watch (merged topic)

[UndercoverElephant]

There's two different issues here -- legal migration and illegal migration. And while both of them have the effect of increasing GDP and available workers, the whole point in legal migration is to have control over who is coming, so they can be effectively matched up to the sorts of work that needs doing. The turning point I was talking about was with respect to the "illegal" sort - which in recent times has been much lower than the legal sort, but is much more contentious precisely because it is uncontrolled. It is also guaranteed to become an ever more serious problem unless it is dealt with -- which is why it is so important to find a way to end it. This is going to have to be done sooner or later, right?

Our addiction to legal migration is inseparable from our addiction to growth. I object to legal migration too, and this is the reason.

[BritDownUnder]

Did the UK not have to agree to Indian migration visas as part of the free trade agreement with India? I think Indians tried the same thing with Australia.

Lots of overseas students in the UK probably stay after their courses end by legal means.

And then there are all the pull factors like competition for jobs like in places like India and China. I met an Indian doctor from Kerala state the other day in this small Australian town and he studied medicine in Lithuania - yes you heard that right - Lithuania (way after the Soviet Union collapsed BTW) as there was too much competition to get into medical school in India. Other pull factors are civil wars that seem to be particularly prevalent in Muslim countries and they seem to be keen to get away from their civil wars.

Japan seems to not have gone down the mass migration path even though they have a low birthrate too. I think a lot of these skills shortages in the UK are caused by people just not wanting to work. I know from sharing houses in the UK in the early 90s just how lazy people can be.

[mr brightside]

The problem with the West (US is a slightly different and unique case) going cold turkey on migration is that we are addicted to it, our economy is dependent on migrant labour across all sectors of society - heath and social care, carers and consultants, drivers, food (farming, manufacturing, retail etc), science, tech - especially the hyped pivot to AI... The UK, and much of the west has a rapidly aging population and for the last few decades the training and qualifications we've given our young has been poorly aligned with the work the economy actually needs.

There's a reason why the most right wing, nationalistic government in a generation, in the aftermath of Brexit *chose* (illegal movement was tiny) to facilitate record immigration. They knew the economy needed it. Whilst I'm sure the vast majority would like to see lower immigration, the cure might be worse than the disease - within a year or two of slamming the door (and a lot of folk leaving by choice due to the hostile political environment) the economy and many services may collapse.

I don't think our economy is dependent upon illegal migration though, as far as i can tell it's a burden to us all because of the false claims for asylum that go along with it. When you say they are coming here to work, do you know this to be a fact? It will always be quite easy to get a free-ish ride in this country.

[BritDownUnder]

I think the simple hard truth is that most, I estimate 80%, of people in an economy do not contribute in a positive economic sense to the economy in terms of the taxes they pay, the imports and government services they consume, the wealth and taxes they share and generate and and jobs they do. This goes for legal and illegal residents alike.

SkyNews Australia was raving on about there being 1 million illegals in the UK.