Israel wants the Palestinian Gas

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vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

another_exlurker wrote:
The statements DO NOT contradict each other, they show that Hamas has been as successful as it can be in policing Gaza to prevent rocket attacks.


They most certainly do.
"Hamas hadn't fired a single rocket since [2012 Gaza conflict],
Is absolute, and can only mean Zero rockets fired in the period. Thirteen rockets a month maybe lower than it was but it is not Zero so the first clause is demonstrable false.
The sentence could have easily been written to convey the whole truth without adding in the lie. If you accept the quibble that someone else fired them ,then you must contrive how these someones acquired ,moved and stored said rocket without Hamas' assistance and permission.
Little John

Post by Little John »

vtsnowedin wrote:
another_exlurker wrote:
The statements DO NOT contradict each other, they show that Hamas has been as successful as it can be in policing Gaza to prevent rocket attacks.


They most certainly do.
"Hamas hadn't fired a single rocket since [2012 Gaza conflict],
Is absolute, and can only mean Zero rockets fired in the period. Thirteen rockets a month maybe lower than it was but it is not Zero so the first clause is demonstrable false.
The sentence could have easily been written to convey the whole truth without adding in the lie. If you accept the quibble that someone else fired them ,then you must contrive how these someones acquired ,moved and stored said rocket without Hamas' assistance and permission.
The Palestinians are, irrespective of the pragmatic wisdom of it, morally entitled to fire on the Israeli occupiers who have stolen their f***ing land!. Enough with the moral equivalence bullshit. No-one is buying it any more no matter how many sock-puppets like you spew that bullshit out. I welcome the day when Israel and the USA get what's coming to them. And it is coming, you can be sure of it. For Israel, it will be from the Muslims when the USA military foundation to Israel's existence finally implodes. For the USA, it will come from within, so sick is your culture it will eat itself alive once the monstrous, quasi-religious, self-delusion of exceptionalism can no longer be maintained.
Last edited by Little John on 29 Jul 2014, 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
another_exlurker
Posts: 159
Joined: 28 Mar 2014, 20:18

Post by another_exlurker »

vtsnowedin wrote:
another_exlurker wrote:
The statements DO NOT contradict each other, they show that Hamas has been as successful as it can be in policing Gaza to prevent rocket attacks.


They most certainly do.
"Hamas hadn't fired a single rocket since [2012 Gaza conflict],
Is absolute, and can only mean Zero rockets fired in the period. Thirteen rockets a month maybe lower than it was but it is not Zero so the first clause is demonstrable false.
The sentence could have easily been written to convey the whole truth without adding in the lie. If you accept the quibble that someone else fired them ,then you must contrive how these someones acquired ,moved and stored said rocket without Hamas' assistance and permission.
And what is that "whole truth", pray tell?

I see you continue to completely ignore any evidence that directly contracts your assumptions and propagandised worldview.

It means zero rockets fired by Hamas NOT zero rockets fired from Gaza. There is a difference that you seem unable, or unwilling, to accept.

You do realise that there is more than one militant group in Gaza with the expertise to manufacture rockets and fire them?

Yet more evidence the directly contradicts your assumptions:
Would the cessation of Hamas rockets be sufficient to halt the current Israeli attacks?

In November of 2012 a ceasefire agreement was brokered between Israel and Hamas that ended Israel’s 8 day military offensive “Operation Pillar of Defense.” After the cease-fire agreement, not one rocket was fired into Israeli territory from Gaza… until Israel broke the ceasefire.

As confirmed by Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, “On the morning of February 26, 2013, a rocket hit was identified south of the Israeli city of Ashqelon. It was the first rocket fired from the Gaza Strip into Israeli territory since November 21, 2012, the end of Operation Pillar of Defense.” What the Ministry of Foreign Affairs does not point out however, is that it was Israel, and not militants from Gaza, who had already broken the ceasefire prior to this attack.

The Jerusalem Fund, a Washington D.C. non-profit, recorded all of the reported violations and subsequent Palestinian projectile attacks in the chart below, they conclude from their findings that,

“Israeli cease-fire violations [after the 2012 agreement] have been persistent throughout and have routinely resulted in Palestinian injuries and deaths. Palestinian launches have been rare and sporadic and occurred almost always after successive instances of Israeli cease-fire violations. You can see a steady escalation from around week 48 and onward. This corresponds with mid-December during which Israel committed several cease-fire violations resulting in multiple Palestinian casualties. There was no Palestinian projectile fire in the two weeks prior to these Israeli violations which inflicted high causalities. This means that this week was the escalation point and it was Israel doing the escalating.”
Original article.

And yet more:
Meanwhile, Ashraq al Awsat reports that Hamas is increasing its efforts to stop rocket fire from the Gaza Strip toward Israel. Members of Hamas' al Qassam Brigades have been "deployed in the border areas of the Gaza Strip replacing policemen with the aim of preventing the firing of rockets from Gaza," the report stated. In addition, al Qassam Brigades members have reportedly "set up fixed and mobile roadblocks" to search cars and find those firing the rockets.

Over the past couple of weeks, Salafi jihadists, primarily the Mujahideen Shura Council in the Environs of Jerusalem, have fired a number of rockets from the Gaza Strip and Sinai Peninsula toward Israel. According to Ashraq al Awsat, Israel recently sent messages to Egyptian mediators, calling on Hamas to make greater efforts in stopping the rocket fire from Gaza.
Original article.
A Salafi militant group operating in Gaza said on Wednesday that Hamas authorities have detained 20 of its members in a crackdown on rocket fire on southern Israel.

The little-known group – the Mujahadeen Shura Council of Jerusalem – posted word of the sweep on its website on Wednesday. It said its members were rounded up this week "to prevent rocket fire from Gaza."

The crackdown is the first in more than a year on ultraconservative Salafi groups operating in Gaza. Hamas currently is believed to be interested in avoiding a conflict with Israel over rocket fire.
Original article.

I'll stop there for now as I should have, by now, shown that your assumptions are wrong.
Little John

Post by Little John »

He's not interested in evidence. He is here as an unadulterated apologist for the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine and for the annihilation of the Palestinian nation. You see, it is not enough for Israel for the Palestinians to merely submit to the monstrous injustice perpetrated against them (though they will never do that). For Israel, the very existence of Palestinians on Palestinian soil is a form of resistance. And so Israel would, if it could, destroy all resistance to the point where the Palestinian nation is erased from history.

But they will fail.
Last edited by Little John on 29 Jul 2014, 18:15, edited 1 time in total.
another_exlurker
Posts: 159
Joined: 28 Mar 2014, 20:18

Post by another_exlurker »

stevecook172001 wrote:The Palestinians are, irrespective of the pragmatic wisdom of it, morally entitled to fire on the Israeli occupiers who have stolen their ******* land!. Enough with the moral equivalence bullshit. No-one is buying it any more no matter how many sock-puppets like you spew that bullshit out. I welcome the day when Israel and the USA get what's coming to them. And it is coming, you can be sure of it. For Israel, it will be from the Muslims when the USA military foundation to Israel's existence finally implodes. For the USA, it will come from within, so sick is your culture it will eat itself alive once the monstrous, quasi-religious, self-delusion of exceptionalism can no longer be maintained.
I don't think it's deliberate Steve (not that that's what I think you're saying, but I hope you get what I mean), what I think we're seeing here is the result of highly successful Israeli propaganda in America, which has largely failed in the rest of the world.

It's going to be difficult to undo that indoctrination.
Little John

Post by Little John »

It's time to stop being reasonable with this shit. It really is.
another_exlurker
Posts: 159
Joined: 28 Mar 2014, 20:18

Post by another_exlurker »

stevecook172001 wrote:He's not interested in evidence. He is here as an unadulterated apologist for the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine and for the annihilation of the Palestinian nation. You see, it is not enough for Israel for the Palestinians to merely submit to the monstrous injustice perpetrated against them (though they will never do that). For Israel, the very existence of Palestinians on Palestinian soil is a form of resistance. And so Israel would, if it could, destroy all resistance to the point where the Palestinian nation is erased from history.

But they will fail.
I'd certainly agree that that is exactly what the Zionists want and they seem to be becoming the majority in Israel. It will, eventually, bring about an end to Israel. Unfortunately at the expense of non-Zionist Jews.
Little John

Post by Little John »

another_exlurker wrote:
stevecook172001 wrote:He's not interested in evidence. He is here as an unadulterated apologist for the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine and for the annihilation of the Palestinian nation. You see, it is not enough for Israel for the Palestinians to merely submit to the monstrous injustice perpetrated against them (though they will never do that). For Israel, the very existence of Palestinians on Palestinian soil is a form of resistance. And so Israel would, if it could, destroy all resistance to the point where the Palestinian nation is erased from history.

But they will fail.
I'd certainly agree that that is exactly what the Zionists want and they seem to be becoming the majority in Israel. It will, eventually, bring about an end to Israel. Unfortunately at the expense of non-Zionist Jews.
Well, then the non-Zionist Jews need to start making a lot more noise right now. I know a small but growing number of them are doing just that, but it needs to be a hell of a lot more.
another_exlurker
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Post by another_exlurker »

stevecook172001 wrote:It's time to stop being reasonable with this shit. It really is.
You can achieve a great deal with a kind word and some 2-by-4. The trick is knowing when to use the kind word. :wink:
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

another_exlurker wrote: And what is that "whole truth", pray tell?

.
I'm not sure what that is or at least a lot less sure then Steve believes he is.
I am just pointing out here that that article is not written to tell the truth but to convince the reader that a sound case had been made for the writers position using quibbles, half truths and misrepresented facts. Writing such tracts is an art and reading them with a critical eye to separate fact from fiction a skill which needs to be developed.
Apparently many here swallow such tripe hook line and sinker which is surprising considering how much people here love to type. Apparently keyboarding and reading comprehension do not go hand in hand.
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

vtsnowedin wrote:
another_exlurker wrote: And what is that "whole truth", pray tell?

.
I'm not sure what that is or at least a lot less sure then Steve believes he is.
I am just pointing out here that that article is not written to tell the truth but to convince the reader that a sound case had been made for the writers position using quibbles, half truths and misrepresented facts. Writing such tracts is an art and reading them with a critical eye to separate fact from fiction a skill which needs to be developed.
Apparently many here swallow such tripe hook line and sinker which is surprising considering how much people here love to type. Apparently keyboarding and reading comprehension do not go hand in hand.
The problem is not our comprehension, but yours. Clearly the fact the United States was the only country in the entire United Nations who voted against a motion to investigate Israel for war crimes is lost on you. Why on Earth do you think that your country is totally isolated on this issue? Is it because every other country on the planet is wrong, and only the Americans can see things for what they are? Or is it because the Americans are a load of right-wing fanatics who haven't got a f***ing clue what is actually going on?

Your country is standing alone in support of a nazi, criminal state that is currently engaged in genocide. And I repeat: do not wonder, or complain, when people seeking to defend those who you're abusing fight back by flying planes into American skyscrapers.

Your country is an evil shit-hole.
another_exlurker
Posts: 159
Joined: 28 Mar 2014, 20:18

Post by another_exlurker »

vtsnowedin wrote:Apparently keyboarding and reading comprehension do not go hand in hand.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The article and various reports from elsewhere (that I have linked to and quoted from), including statements from the IDF, clearly state that during the period in question Hamas fired zero rockets from Gaza in to Israel and have been doing their level best to prevent them, including arresting members of other, far more radical Islamist groups within Gaza who HAVE been firing rockets. A fact you seem utterly incapable of understanding, acknowledging, addressing or accepting.
another_exlurker
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Joined: 28 Mar 2014, 20:18

Post by another_exlurker »

UndercoverElephant wrote: Your country is an evil shit-hole.
Well, Washington DC certainly is.
Little John

Post by Little John »

another_exlurker wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Apparently keyboarding and reading comprehension do not go hand in hand.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The article and various reports from elsewhere (that I have linked to and quoted from), including statements from the IDF, clearly state that during the period in question Hamas fired zero rockets from Gaza in to Israel and have been doing their level best to prevent them, including arresting members of other, far more radical Islamist groups within Gaza who HAVE been firing rockets. A fact you seem utterly incapable of understanding, acknowledging, addressing or accepting.
I do believe it's time to stop trying to accommodate the Israeli narrative on it's own twisted terms by pointing out how meek and compliant Hamas have been. Hamas and all other Palestinians have a right to fire rockets into Israeli occupied territory. The Israelis are an occupying force who have stolen their land. If the Israelis then complain that they have children and other civilians in those territories, it should be pointed out to them that they should stop using children as human shields in a war zone. After all, they've regularly used that shitty argument on the Palestinians, who literally don't have anywhere to go as they are forced to live on top of one another in the most densely populated area on the planet, courtesy of the effective open prison that is Gaza.
another_exlurker
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Post by another_exlurker »

I agree, whatever Hamas does it is never quite good enough for the Zionists and they (the Zionists) will always find or make up a reason for accelerating their genocide of the Palestinians.

Gaza now has no power station, the Israelis destroyed it a few hours ago. That means no running water.

The Palestinians have every right to fight back. It's just a pity that Hezbollah are currently distracted in Syria.

Apologies if this has already been linked to:

http://www.popularresistance.org/israel ... tolen-gas/
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