Moderator: Peak Moderation
You may say I'm dreamerbiffvernon wrote:John Lennon wrote:Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
...
The film pointed to the positive impact that the debate has had on engagement in the political process, and the re-emergence of town hall politics, irrespective of voting intention. It described packed village halls with people eager to debate, which was interesting, as we were watching the film in a packed village hall, on a Saturday night, with X-Factor on TV. Mind you, it may have had something to do with the excellent homemade shortbread on offer! The youngest person in the room looked about six, the oldest well into their 80's.The referendum asks; "Does Scotland want to be independent. In a way, it's an old-fashioned question. It's asking something else. It's asking; "Do you want to start again? Do you want to re-think what a country should be in the 21st century?"
More than probable, but it's about the journey.UndercoverElephant wrote:You may say I'm dreamerbiffvernon wrote:John Lennon wrote:Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
...
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join me
And the wo..er...er...erld will continue down exactly the same path to oblivion, leaving the dreamers splattered like flies on a windscreen
exactly. We are all, apart from a few fuckers at the top, dancing to a tune not of our making, where we must each of us F--k the next guy over in order to stay afloat.another_exlurker wrote:Steve, most of those agricultural workers aren't married and don't have kids. Also, the farms usually provide accommodation of some kind (usually static caravans). As far as I'm aware, agricultural accommodation that is located on the farm doesn't attract council tax if it's for farm employees. There usually isn't any rent to pay either (hence why the wages are lower).
One of the reasons why the farms have to rely on immigrant workers is because, traditionally, those jobs were done by migrant workers from within the UK. Thanks to Maggie destroying the traveller community, that whole way of life was (to all intent and purpose) completely destroyed.
Bloody hell.Tarrel wrote:Latest YouGov poll shows the "Yes" campaign ahead for the first time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-29093956
This problemMr. Fox wrote:What problem?
I thought it worth repeating.Many of them are short term migrant workers who work in industries like agriculture and other seasonal sectors. these sectors previously employed low skilled British workers. Those people are, by virtue of the the way our society is set up, required to have permanent address, send their kids to school etc. This means that they are subject to costs of living that are more or less inescapable. Things such as rent, council tax water rates and all the rest. This means that the wages on offer by farmers and other seasonal employers simply do not meet those costs. Any employer who chooses to employ indigenous British workers alone on decent wages that meet such costs will be firstly immediately economically disadvantaged by other employers who choose to employ low paid migrants and, secondly, he/she may well be subject to EU anti-discrimination employment laws. And so, all employers are dragged to the party of low pay and conditions for workers whether they like it or not.
Even when such workers are not short term migrants, it is hardly uprising, if they have come from an economic basket case of a country, that they will put up with shitty pay and conditions and keep their mouths shut and not complain. The UK, as it happens, had a booming economy during most of the Victorian Era. The lot of most workers during that period consisted of hard lives that were considerably shorter than had been the case in the period immediately prior to the industrial revolution. Only when unions formed and pushed for better pay and conditions did things change. Even then it took a couple of wars and thousands of men marching home having been trained to kill people with guns, before our elites finally were scared enough to give some ground. It's only surprising it has taken the bastards 70 odd years to begin to seriously claw it all back.
I think that is a fundamental error. There is not a fixed number of jobs in the economy. If a Romanian comes here and picks cabbages it allows jobs to be created in the cabbage distribution and retailing system.kenneal - lagger wrote: Every migrant who comes here makes it more difficult for a person already here to get a job.
Now there is a public works project you could sink your teeth into. Why just the permitting process alone would waste tens of billions and pad the retirements of hundreds of bureaucrats.kenneal - lagger wrote: Tarrel, Carlisle will only become another Calais if the Scots rebuild Hadrian's Wall or dig a very wide moat!
UndercoverElephant wrote:hold on to your gold. Its day will come.
Let's thread some truth into this, the word 'migrant' is a cognitive dupe to dehumanise, these folk are 'blow-back' victims of social engineering courtesy of the highest brutality dished out in order to maintain that illusion of milk and honey you refer to and the whole façade serves nothing but that systemic fig-leaf in cloaking a minority privilege, it's not even utilitarian.....it's good old fashion greed born of economic/ecological illiteracy.kenneal - lagger wrote:This problemMr. Fox wrote:What problem?
OK, they are not eligible for benefits when they get here but stories of the benefits available must make this country sound like a land of milk and honey. Every migrant who comes here makes it more difficult for a person already here to get a job. Every migrant who come here lowers the wages available for those who are already here. Every migrant who comes here lowers the potential standard of living of those who are already here. Every migrant who comes here and lives ten or more to a room, hot bedding, makes it more likely that those who are already here will have to do the same at some time in the future. the fact that these are all illegal immigrants means that they will work for peanuts and be better off.
Migrants are in competition with those at the bottom of the pile already and Steve has already pointed out what their lot might beI thought it worth repeating.Many of them are short term migrant workers who work in industries like agriculture and other seasonal sectors. these sectors previously employed low skilled British workers. Those people are, by virtue of the the way our society is set up, required to have permanent address, send their kids to school etc. This means that they are subject to costs of living that are more or less inescapable. Things such as rent, council tax water rates and all the rest. This means that the wages on offer by farmers and other seasonal employers simply do not meet those costs. Any employer who chooses to employ indigenous British workers alone on decent wages that meet such costs will be firstly immediately economically disadvantaged by other employers who choose to employ low paid migrants and, secondly, he/she may well be subject to EU anti-discrimination employment laws. And so, all employers are dragged to the party of low pay and conditions for workers whether they like it or not.
Even when such workers are not short term migrants, it is hardly uprising, if they have come from an economic basket case of a country, that they will put up with shitty pay and conditions and keep their mouths shut and not complain. The UK, as it happens, had a booming economy during most of the Victorian Era. The lot of most workers during that period consisted of hard lives that were considerably shorter than had been the case in the period immediately prior to the industrial revolution. Only when unions formed and pushed for better pay and conditions did things change. Even then it took a couple of wars and thousands of men marching home having been trained to kill people with guns, before our elites finally were scared enough to give some ground. It's only surprising it has taken the bastards 70 odd years to begin to seriously claw it all back.
Tarrel, Carlisle will only become another Calais if the Scots rebuild Hadrian's Wall or dig a very wide moat!
Erm....no.biffvernon wrote:I think that is a fundamental error. There is not a fixed number of jobs in the economy. If a Romanian comes here and picks cabbages it allows jobs to be created in the cabbage distribution and retailing system.kenneal - lagger wrote: Every migrant who comes here makes it more difficult for a person already here to get a job.
