Energy price cap, domestic and other merged topic

[Tarrel]

One concern i have is that people may just carry on as normal in a sort of herd mentality. Mindsets such as 'i'm not having little Chloe and little Tarquin being cold' might start to get traction among families, who will ignore that fact that children are very resilient to cold.

Is anything stopping us reopening the pits going back to coal gas?

I cant see any return to coal gas for several reasons.

Firstly coal is out of favour as it is carbon intensive, whether turned into gas or used in other ways.
Secondly coal gas has a much lower calorific value than does natural gas, and the gas main network would have insufficient volumetric capacity to deliver the present heat demand.
Thirdly coal gas burns differently and would require every gas appliance to be modified or replaced.
And finally coal gas is exceedingly toxic and would never be allowed these days.

Poor little Chloe and Tarquin might have to wear warm clothes, a terrible imposition no doubt. Heating in schools should be limited to 18 degrees. Firstly to save money on heating, secondly to set a good example, and finally to indirectly reduce domestic heating demand as children and teachers used to 18 degrees at school might accept this at home.

Yes, one shouldn't underestimate the power of acclimatisation. We had a friend visit us up here in the Highlands from London last week. Born in Britain but of Sri Lankan extraction. He was wearing three layers when we went out, including a waterproof coat and a hat. We were in tee-shirts!

[Tarrel]

My advice for someone living in a poorly insulated dwelling who is really struggling with energy costs would be; a) get a dehumidifier. These can raise the ambient temperature in the room by a couple of degrees and, more importantly, reduce the humidity to avoid the risk of mould and spores associated with low temperatures and condensation. b) use infra-red panels to provide local, direct heat when sedentary (relaxing, desk-working, etc). A dehumidifier will run on around 250W and won't necessarily be on all the time. Infra-red panels are instant-on, so they can remain off while one is busy around the house and keeping warm through activity. Warm jumpers taken as read. Fingerless gloves help. The above assumes no access to a solid fuel stove.

[Vortex2]

Sudden thought : if the Standing Charges go up by 5x or so then even with ZERO consumption you could have substantial bills.

[Default0ptions]

Yeah. There comes a point when disconnection becomes a good idea. It’s worth working out now ‘how will I manage without mains gas and electricity’ and maybe mains water too. I think mains water will probably become unsafe to drink without filtering and boiling as the everything crunch begins to bite.

[Vortex2]

If millions of normal peole start thinking about this sort of thing, it's essentially all over.

Social unrest will be assured.

[Default0ptions]

If millions of normal peole start thinking about this sort of thing, it's essentially all over.

Social unrest will be assured.

I’m not sure about that. It’s actually very easy to live without central heating and electricity. Humans have done it for thousands of years. I grew up with no central heating. At the boarding schools I went to the dormitories had no heating (or curtains lol) and we’d put glasses of water beside our beds in cold weather to see if they’d freeze.

There’s a a massive amount to be saved and it doesn’t have to wait for voluntary disconnection. Prepayment meters or just being cut off for non payment are likely.

More concerning is the wave of unemployment that we seem to be headed for as small businesses get wiped out by energy bills and discretionary purchases cease as inflation makes them unaffordable

[adam2]

Whilst it is possible to live without central heating or electricity, people have become unused to managing without these.
Whole house heating to 24 degrees now seems to be regarded as a basic human right.
A fair proportion of the population have no idea how to safely use a car battery for basic lighting, or how to use oil or LPG appliances. Most do not even have proper winter clothing.
Clothing should be cotton next to the skin, with wool for outer garments. "Fashion" rules the day, which generally means lightweight polyester.

Winter bedding should comprise brushed cotton sheets and either wool blankets or a thick feather filled duvet. NOT polyester in the latest "on trend" design.

The young might even have to start wearing vests, cruel and unusual punishment though this is considered. Some would rather die of the cold than wear long johns.

At night, they might have to wear thick brushed cotton pajamas, more cruelty. A nightshirt would I suspect be too terrible to contemplate.

So yes I do expect unrest both in the UK and in Europe.

[adam2]

The young should consider these, not as leisure wear but to wear under a shirt in order to save on heating. Other suppliers are available.
https://www.britishthermals.com/product ... a932&_ss=r

[Initiation]

Sudden thought : if the Standing Charges go up by 5x or so then even with ZERO consumption you could have substantial bills.

The standing charge is not going to rise by much unless further electricity utilities fail this winter. In fact it should actually go down next April as the supplier of last resort costs imposed from last winter are paid off over 12 months.

[mr brightside]

The young might even have to start wearing vests, cruel and unusual punishment though this is considered. Some would rather die of the cold than wear long johns.

I wear compression leggings under my jeans/overalls most of the time, you get used to it. The compression keeps swelling out of my knees and the heat retention is sufficient to speed up recovery times after a running race so that i can train more. It's a good way to stay warm, too warm in the summer!

[mr brightside]

https://www.britishthermals.com/product ... ssic-vests The young should consider these, not as leisure wear but to wear under a shirt in order to save on heating. Other suppliers are available.

Fell runners swear by this, https://www.wiggle.co.uk/helly-hansen-l ... lsrc=aw.ds

[adam2]

Fell runners swear by this, https://www.wiggle.co.uk/helly-hansen-l ... lsrc=aw.ds

I can see merit of such garments for fell running, and other intensely active pursuits, less suitable in my view for regular indoor wear.

IME, cotton underwear is far preferable for regular indoor wear with light activity. Synthetic garments may be preferable if they will get wet, from sweat or from rain. Synthetic underwear tends to promote body odours and needs changing immediately after the the cycle race, cross country run or similar event.

[Vortex2]

The proposed energy price rises simply cannot happen.

I was talking to a friend today about his fuel bills.

He pays on average £180 per month .. BUT .. has just received an estimate for January for around £950.

He is a high earner .. but even he is nervous about this.

His opinion is that the goverment MUST devise a solution to this ... you simply cannot have many/most families facing energy bills of £750+ a month.

Thos bills will also kill most pubs, restaurants and many shops.

If nothing can be done, then in January expect massive social kick-back.

[UndercoverElephant]

His opinion is that the goverment MUST devise a solution to this .

His opinion may also be that the government MUST find a corner on a circle.

There is no solution. Not enough gas/electricity is available to satisfy basic demand, so the price must rise until somebody can no longer afford to buy it. Government intervention can only mean printing more money in order to outbid other consumers, but all that does is drive price inflation ever higher.

EDIT: there is no solution within the current "overton window" regarding politics and economics.

[johnny]

His opinion is that the goverment MUST devise a solution to this ... you simply cannot have many/most families facing energy bills of £750+ a month.

Sure you can. Every citizen would prefer to be impoverished rather than develop domestic supply, I was told just about this by a poster here within the last month or two. Just tell the citizens to wait a few years..or decades...and deal with it as best they can while more renewable infrastructure is built out.

No citizen should ever want energy security and low prices, how dare they? How can the elites milk them right up until they freeze in the dark somewhere down the road if the rabble realize someone could start drilling and producing the beginnings of domestic supply by Christmas?

Thos bills will also kill most pubs, restaurants and many shops.If nothing can be done, then in January expect massive social kick-back.

This was a given 3 years ago and published for all to see. No one gets to be surprised now.