Are car loans driving us towards the next financial crash?

[Lurkalot]

]collecting and showing classic cars is a hobby you can get into at whatever level your means allow.most don't make any money at it unless they are the craftsmen doing their own maintenance and restortation work.If you don't have cheap garage space and a good mechanic at your disposal it can be a money pit.

Granted that's true , at the very lowest level are pushbikes which once done up have virtually no maintenance costs although buying the old bike can be expensive for what it is . Then through things like static engines ( that deserves a rant of it's own) and onto rebuilt cars and lorries all of which have seen prices rising for rusting hulks. Then we have what some call "useable classics " , a category which my wife's car seems to fall. Not new but a few decades old and with performances roughly on par with modern cars . Unlike say another friend who has a 1930's Morris eight which rarely goes more than 15 miles from home and which he admits he doesn't feel completely safe in . We are seeing prices for '70's cars rising and the word classic banded about frequently for cars that at one time were classed as outdated , clapped out rust buckets

[Lurkalot]

And of course if the vehicle is kept undercover in dry conditions and is only driven two or three times a year, what's to wear out?

Yes, rubber perishes, I know.

yes , a guy I work for has recently brought a Ferrari ( he did tell me the model but I forget , long bonnet pointy thing) and I don't think it's left the garage since he acquired it but he has evidently made money on it without doing a thing other than park it.
Perhaps my friend would be better off waiting 'till the next crash to buy his classic . Expensive luxuries that can hardly be used tend to lose value at such times

[raspberry-blower]

And of course if the vehicle is kept undercover in dry conditions and is only driven two or three times a year, what's to wear out?

Yes, rubber perishes, I know.

yes , a guy I work for has recently brought a Ferrari ( he did tell me the model but I forget , long bonnet pointy thing) and I don't think it's left the garage since he acquired it but he has evidently made money on it without doing a thing other than park it.
Perhaps my friend would be better off waiting 'till the next crash to buy his classic . Expensive luxuries that can hardly be used tend to lose value at such times

Definitely asset price deflation in the classic car market:
Wolf Richter: What the Heck is going on with Vintage Automobiles?

What's going on Stateside is filtering across over in the UK.

[Lurkalot]

Thanks for that RB , I'll pass that onto my friend . The article does seem to be talking about top end cars in the states and not the humbler crates my friend is looking at but as you say what starts over there ...
He still has his "dream" of owning a classic vehicle and only this weekend was talking about potential "future classics" one of which was a short run of Reliant cars made by a small firm after the collapse of Reliant themselves. Another he has looked at is a vehicle called a Stryker ( think that's correct) which is again a limited run ( 80 ish) of utility vehicles used by the army and airforce. If he didn't have a girlfriend that has used up his savings clearing her debts then I'm sure there would be something on the drive already.

[raspberry-blower]

Did anyone have the misfortune to see BBC Breakfast yesterday? There was a fluff piece on featuring the head of Ford (UK) being given soft questions on its new scrappage scheme. He was promoting "eco driving" our cars are now more environmentally friendly twaddle. (If you really want to have an environmentally friendly mode of transport either get a bicycle or walk!)
There is also a fluff piece on the BBC website that can be found here
Towards the end of this article, the cat escapes from the bag:

And let's be frank, it is also an attempt to boost sales which have been flagging across the industry for the past four months.

It's hard to see it making a big dent in the dirty air problem.


Ford, BMW, Vauxhall and Mercedes sell around one million cars in the UK.

The scrappage schemes will help support sales at a time when demand for new cars is beginning to show signs of a sustained drop for the first time in around six years.

Sod the eco-driving BS it is all an attempt to halt the nose dive in new car sales.

Same as it ever was..

[clv101]

Sod the eco-driving BS it is all an attempt to halt the nose dive in new car sales.

Same as it ever was..

It's clearly nothing more this year's marketing strategy - that the media aren't calling the manufactures out on this, but instead as giving them massive free publicity speaks to the sorry state of our media today.

[careful_eugene]

Thanks for that RB , I'll pass that onto my friend . The article does seem to be talking about top end cars in the states and not the humbler crates my friend is looking at but as you say what starts over there ...
He still has his "dream" of owning a classic vehicle and only this weekend was talking about potential "future classics" one of which was a short run of Reliant cars made by a small firm after the collapse of Reliant themselves. Another he has looked at is a vehicle called a Stryker ( think that's correct) which is again a limited run ( 80 ish) of utility vehicles used by the army and airforce. If he didn't have a girlfriend that has used up his savings clearing her debts then I'm sure there would be something on the drive already.

Plenty of cheap Saab 900's about, a real future classic and very well built.

[emordnilap]

Ordinary people find it difficult to think about change, you know, can never consider any alternative to the choices they've made. They've a lot invested in how they see themselves. Me too, I admit it.

[woodburner]

Our car is 21 years old. Change is what I have in my pocket (sometimes).

[kenneal - lagger]

... he has looked at is a vehicle called a Stryker ( think that's correct) which is again a limited run ( 80 ish) of utility vehicles used by the army and airforce. ...

There is one of those on the drive belonging to a friend of mine. They're not small!!

[Lurkalot]

Made a small mistake , it was a Springer not a Stryker that my friend had looked at . They're a sort of two wheel drive jeep/Land Rover type of beast. He found one on eBay but a bit of research revealed it was registered as an agricultural vehicle and had limitations on it's use the most restrictive of which was a limit of something like 19 miles range from home permissible .
http://www.army-technology.com/projects ... l-terrain/

[Potemkin Villager]

Our car is 21 years old. Change is what I have in my pocket (sometimes).

Ours is a mere 17 years old an it looks like it should only cost about £120 to get it through the test this year. We are obviously not trying hard enough to support the motor industry.

[emordnilap]

Our car is 21 years old. Change is what I have in my pocket (sometimes).

Ours is a mere 17 years old an it looks like it should only cost about £120 to get it through the test this year. We are obviously not trying hard enough to support the motor industry.

You two just ain't concerned about jobs, jobs, jobs, are you?

[raspberry-blower]

In the States, Ford is becoming desperate:

Zero Hedge: Ford to abandon "Traditional Credit Scores" as sales stall

The company says it is looking at ways to increase loan and lease approvals for applicants with limited credit histories. These consumers are often denied credit because they lack a history of managing debt and as a result have low credit scores. Ford’s credit division plans to review new data to try to determine whether these customers, as well as those with more robust borrowing histories, are likely to repay their loans.

The move by Ford Motor's financing unit is expected to unfold in coming years, even as concerns mount about rising auto-loan losses in the industry. Ford Motor Credit is expected to announce the plans as soon as Friday.



Ford Credit is among the largest U.S. lenders to say that it is looking at using alternative methods of underwriting, beyond the traditional factors that are mostly centered around credit reports. “No financial services firm would take that decision lightly,� says Jim Moynes, vice president of risk management at Ford Credit.

[kenneal - lagger]

Sub-Prime car loans? The next crash is brewing!