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johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

As with many other politicians including Bernie Sanders their policies have to work within the context of reality.
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/08/the_rea ... ald_trump/
Bernie Sanders does not talk like this. He knows better — both as the progeny of Holocaust survivors, and as a decent man. He knows where this kind of talk has often led, and he scrupulously avoids it. Yet for reasons unclear, Wall Street still seems to regard Sanders — not Trump — as politician most likely to turn the mob against them. He isn’t, not by a long shot; and it’s long past time they recognized that fact.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/ ... can-worker
A week ago Sunday, one of the two eventual winners of the New Hampshire primaries assailed the power of corporate lobbyists over the U.S. government, labelling them “bloodsuckers.” He attacked defense contractors for forcing the government to buy missiles it didn’t need. He blasted oil companies and insurers. And he vowed to use the bargaining power of the U.S. government to drive down drug prices. Surprisingly, this was a speech not by the democratic-socialist Bernie Sanders but, rather, by the self-proclaimed billionaire Donald Trump.
Trump is playing a very smart game. He ramped up his anti-immigrant/Muslim cultural populism to become the top candidate in the Republican primaries. Now that he has secured his base, he is shifting to a broader economic populism designed to appeal to the 80% of Americans who have not benefited from the economic recovery. Wall Street are a target rich environment, despised by everybody, yet protected by a venal political class.

Trump can afford to seriously take on Wall Street interests because he doesn't need their money to win the election. And, to top it up, he is backed by a army of armed right wing militias who will take the war to Washington and New York if Trump becomes president.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
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jonny2mad
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Post by jonny2mad »

Lord Beria3 wrote:Interesting.

My reading is that Trump brand of economic populism will become increasingly anti-Wall Street and big business as he starts to seriously start courting Democratic voters.

I also think that Trump, nasty man as he is, is far more likely to reshape and challenge the power of the Washington political and economic establishment than the weak Sanders. Why?

Because Trump has the ruthlessness to take on the establishment and the backing of a seriously angry pitchfork crowd of right-wing militias behind him - Trump if he wanted to, could unleash a mass movement of armed, right-wing and pissed of voters onto Washington to literally intimidate Congress into voting in anti-Wall Street measures. I just can't see Sanders taking such a risk.

Trump as president will be prepared to use any means to take on the banks and the Washington elite - he is a total bastard and knows what he is dealing with e.g. total bastards.
I would vote trump, great pity we don't have someone like trump in europe, but very likely the electorate here are too daft and wouldnt elect him .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_q61B-DyPk

Straight talking, tough, non politically correct
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
Little John

Post by Little John »

jonny2mad wrote:
Lord Beria3 wrote:Interesting.

My reading is that Trump brand of economic populism will become increasingly anti-Wall Street and big business as he starts to seriously start courting Democratic voters.

I also think that Trump, nasty man as he is, is far more likely to reshape and challenge the power of the Washington political and economic establishment than the weak Sanders. Why?

Because Trump has the ruthlessness to take on the establishment and the backing of a seriously angry pitchfork crowd of right-wing militias behind him - Trump if he wanted to, could unleash a mass movement of armed, right-wing and pissed of voters onto Washington to literally intimidate Congress into voting in anti-Wall Street measures. I just can't see Sanders taking such a risk.

Trump as president will be prepared to use any means to take on the banks and the Washington elite - he is a total bastard and knows what he is dealing with e.g. total bastards.
I would vote trump, great pity we don't have someone like trump in europe, but very likely the electorate here are too daft and wouldnt elect him .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_q61B-DyPk

Straight talking, tough, non politically correct
He's not straight talking. He just knows how to work a crowd. That's not the same thing. As for being tough, don't make me laugh. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and inherited his fortune off his father. As for non-politically correct, well that is obviously true. But, being politically incorrect is not, in itself, any kind of indication of greatness. There should be a reason for it. In Trump's case, the only reason is that he knows how to cynically tap into a rich vein of discontent with corporate politics in the electorate. On some individual aspects of his pronouncements there are some things I would not disagree with. But, they pale into insignificance compared to all of the other aspects of this man which are utterly detestable, it not downright dangerous
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Little John wrote:
He's not straight talking. He just knows how to work a crowd. That's not the same thing. As for being tough, don't make me laugh. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and inherited his fortune off his father. As for non-politically correct, well that is obviously true. But, being politically incorrect is not, in itself, any kind of indication of greatness. There should be a reason for it. In Trump's case, the only reason is that he knows how to cynically tap into a rich vein of discontent with corporate politics in the electorate. On some individual aspects of his pronouncements there are some things I would not disagree with. But, they pale into insignificance compared to all of the other aspects of this man which are utterly detestable, it not downright dangerous
You are spot on there. Voting for him would be a "Huge" mistake.
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jonny2mad
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Post by jonny2mad »

Little John wrote:
jonny2mad wrote:
Lord Beria3 wrote:Interesting.

My reading is that Trump brand of economic populism will become increasingly anti-Wall Street and big business as he starts to seriously start courting Democratic voters.

I also think that Trump, nasty man as he is, is far more likely to reshape and challenge the power of the Washington political and economic establishment than the weak Sanders. Why?

Because Trump has the ruthlessness to take on the establishment and the backing of a seriously angry pitchfork crowd of right-wing militias behind him - Trump if he wanted to, could unleash a mass movement of armed, right-wing and pissed of voters onto Washington to literally intimidate Congress into voting in anti-Wall Street measures. I just can't see Sanders taking such a risk.

Trump as president will be prepared to use any means to take on the banks and the Washington elite - he is a total bastard and knows what he is dealing with e.g. total bastards.
I would vote trump, great pity we don't have someone like trump in europe, but very likely the electorate here are too daft and wouldnt elect him .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_q61B-DyPk

Straight talking, tough, non politically correct
He's not straight talking. He just knows how to work a crowd. That's not the same thing. As for being tough, don't make me laugh. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and inherited his fortune off his father. As for non-politically correct, well that is obviously true. But, being politically incorrect is not, in itself, any kind of indication of greatness. There should be a reason for it. In Trump's case, the only reason is that he knows how to cynically tap into a rich vein of discontent with corporate politics in the electorate. On some individual aspects of his pronouncements there are some things I would not disagree with. But, they pale into insignificance compared to all of the other aspects of this man which are utterly detestable, it not downright dangerous
The Art of the Deal" Donald Trump states he started out with about $200,000 straight out of college. That includes real estate his father helped him own. He received $40-$200 million when his father died in 1999. He was worth $1.6 billion at this time, estimated by Forbes now hes worth between 8-10 billion . So he had a rich dad and help but lots of people have rich parents and lose all their money .
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
Little John

Post by Little John »

Rubbish. He will have received a stipend that people like you and me would consider a king's ransom right up to his father's death, at which point he then inherited between 40 and 200 million.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/pe ... e-rich.asp

If Donald Trump had done no more than invest his inheritance money, he would have made more than he currently claims to be worth.
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

Why would anyone want to put an arrogant billionaire in charge of country? What kind of delusion causes ordinary Americans to think that this will be a Good Thing?

Trump is only in the race because he wants to be able to say he's done it. He'll be wanting to be knighted next. What possible sympathy can he have with an averagely-poor person, i.e., a massive number of his (potential) subjects?
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Snail

Post by Snail »

I think part of the cause of the delusion is the rise in emotionalism. I've noticed it increasingly over the years in news for example. News programmes focus on the emotional aspect of a story, making it into a mini drama. ITV news at ten has transformed into the Tom Bradby Show.

People are becoming more emotional. First minister questions in Scotland, PMQs in England, Question Time. Death/disasters turned by the media into an event, with hysterical mourning. But also people I meet. I reckon its a factor in the increase in mental illness.

I've always thought I suffered from depression. But last two years, it morphed into something else: I would be cycling every few days from emotional deep depression into feeling OK. Im mentioning this, because in the emotional stage, I would lose the ability to think (as if my consciousness disappeared/become submerged). Stuff (spiritual/philosophical) I've read over the years suddenly made more sense. I'm fine now, as I realise from experience that much of which I attributed as 'I' is habit-based.

The point I'm making is, trump and people like him(eg.corbyn but maybe not intentionally) play on peoples emotions. People are caught up in the emotional moment. (Like myself in the Scottish independent debate). They stop thinking things through and go into automatic mode.

For various reasons, we're living in emotionally-strong times. A good time to be a sheep.
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Snail wrote:....
....
For various reasons, we're living in emotionally-strong times. A good time to be a sheep.
Surely not a sheep? A wolf perhaps or a tortoise.
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

Snail wrote:I think part of the cause of the delusion is the rise in emotionalism. I've noticed it increasingly over the years in news for example. News programmes focus on the emotional aspect of a story, making it into a mini drama. ITV news at ten has transformed into the Tom Bradby Show.

People are becoming more emotional. First minister questions in Scotland, PMQs in England, Question Time. Death/disasters turned by the media into an event, with hysterical mourning. But also people I meet. I reckon its a factor in the increase in mental illness.

I've always thought I suffered from depression. But last two years, it morphed into something else: I would be cycling every few days from emotional deep depression into feeling OK. Im mentioning this, because in the emotional stage, I would lose the ability to think (as if my consciousness disappeared/become submerged). Stuff (spiritual/philosophical) I've read over the years suddenly made more sense. I'm fine now, as I realise from experience that much of which I attributed as 'I' is habit-based.

The point I'm making is, trump and people like him(eg.corbyn but maybe not intentionally) play on peoples emotions. People are caught up in the emotional moment. (Like myself in the Scottish independent debate). They stop thinking things through and go into automatic mode.

For various reasons, we're living in emotionally-strong times. A good time to be a sheep.
Fascinating, snail because I feel like the opposite of what you describe. Mind you, I have no tv and studiously position myself with my back to tvs in pubs and restaurants. I ignore or ridicule advertisements when I can, it's all they deserve.

Stuff is too real to me - I see little compassion but take on board what you say about Corbyn (I can't put Trump in the same league). I look at what politicians do - and what specific posters on this board say - and few do or say anything I remotely call sensible, never mind compassionate or emotional in the sense of empathetic, which is something they need.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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jonny2mad
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Post by jonny2mad »

Well I like Trump, just by stopping islamic immigration into the states he may save America for a while . If Europe blows up I would rather a United States with a small number of muslims and a Trump in charge .

Are you in favour of waterboarding Mr Trump

I'm in favour of a lot worse than waterboarding.

To me hes a move in the right direction, building a wall, I think he actually would build a wall
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

jonny2mad wrote:Are you in favour of waterboarding Mr Trump

I'm in favour of a lot worse than waterboarding.
Torture does not find the truth.

The USA from time to time punished people with the death penalty. That at least is rational. Torture actually is not.
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jonny2mad
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Post by jonny2mad »

I think it speaks to his general approach, the intelligence you get may not be useful but the approach is .

As it is we have people walking about recruiting for isis, go to london you will see them giving talks on the street . You have the leader of the labour party defending terrorist mosques

That to me shows we are not serious about fighting political islam, what would Bomber Harris do .

Trump seems to like Patton what would he do
"What causes more suffering in the world than the stupidity of the compassionate?"Friedrich Nietzsche

optimism is cowardice oswald spengler
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

There may be an emotional attraction to his statements. However, emotional decisions are frequently not the best decisions.
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