Greece Watch...

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Little John

Post by Little John »

johnhemming2 wrote:
Little John wrote:You have no more idea than anyone else of what Tsipras thinks other than what he has stated he thinks.
I think that is a pretty good start, however.

Really it is best to go at face value.
Really John Hemming? You want people to judge politicians on face value. That is to say, on the basis of the general impression they give of themselves?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

F--k me man. Are you so incapable of grasping the enormous irony of the above?
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

I really do think it is best in terms of understanding what Tsipras thinks of something to work on the basis of what he says.

How otherwise can there be a debate unless people agree on the matters in the debate.

If we cannot even agree as to a starting position there is no sense having a discussion.

His view has been that the Greeks did not want to leave the Eurozone. I think that, therefore, is a good starting position.

What starting position would you suggest?
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

Little John wrote:You want people to judge politicians on face value. That is to say, on the basis of the general impression they give of themselves?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

**** me man. Are you so incapable of grasping the enormous irony of the above?
lol

The old joke - how can you tell when a politician is lying?
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
snow hope
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Post by snow hope »

Little John wrote: He [Tsipras] has more or less stated in terms that what he and his government is being forced to do in the name of the Troika to his country is an unmitigated and disastrous act of barbarism. But, that he had little choice given the act of economic terrorism wreaked on his country.

His only mistake was to assume that the European Union was precisely that. a Union, instead of a Fourth Reich in the making
Agreed. They have been kicked in the bollocks by a Euro Group who wanted revenge (on his audacity to call a referendum) and to show them who was boss. Absolutely Pathetic. :evil:

I have lost all desire to remain part of this heinous group - I suspect there are millions more with similar feelings. People may well look back at this time and conclude this was the turning point for the destruction of the European Union. I hope they come to realise their guilty actions. :shock:
Real money is gold and silver
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

It's the unelected (the Commission, the ECB, the IMF etc and their corporate backers) who are the problem. We're not part of that group.

There's only one sensible option for Greece - leave the euro and tell the so-called 'creditors' to stick their 'debts' up their gold-plated backsides.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

Here's an interesting document (a pdf) from, of all institutions, the IMF.
Specifically, if the income share of the top 20 percent (the rich) increases, then GDP growth actually declines over the medium term, suggesting that the benefits do not trickle down.

In contrast, an increase in the income share of the bottom 20 percent (the poor) is associated with higher GDP growth. The poor and the middle class matter the most for growth via a number of interrelated economic, social, and political channels.
More succinctly:
we find an inverse relationship between the income share accruing to the rich (top 20 percent) and economic growth
Who'da thunk it?
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

The Euzozone that drove the negotiations is a group of elected finance ministers. The idea that there is a form of corporate underpinning to all of this is nonsense.
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Catweazle
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Post by Catweazle »

emordnilap wrote:
Little John wrote:You want people to judge politicians on face value. That is to say, on the basis of the general impression they give of themselves?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

**** me man. Are you so incapable of grasping the enormous irony of the above?
how can you tell when a politician is lying?
Ooh, hang on, I know this one..... Is it when they say they'll abolish tuition fees ?
3rdRock

Post by 3rdRock »

Catweazle wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Little John wrote:You want people to judge politicians on face value. That is to say, on the basis of the general impression they give of themselves?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

**** me man. Are you so incapable of grasping the enormous irony of the above?
how can you tell when a politician is lying?
Ooh, hang on, I know this one..... Is it when they say they'll abolish tuition fees ?
Talking of fees ...

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/poli ... 506917.ece
Nick Clegg joins public speaking big league with fees of £40,000
Perhaps Labour should invite Cleggy along to a party conference to elaborate on the qualities required for leadership. For a small fee of course. :wink:
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Catweazle wrote:
emordnilap wrote:
Little John wrote:You want people to judge politicians on face value. That is to say, on the basis of the general impression they give of themselves?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

**** me man. Are you so incapable of grasping the enormous irony of the above?
how can you tell when a politician is lying?
Ooh, hang on, I know this one..... Is it when they say they'll abolish tuition fees ?
Sneakeeeeey! :D
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

Or indeed getting a fairer alternative that the new government is about to make less fair.
3rdRock

Post by 3rdRock »

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... s-imf-help
Greece edges closer to third bailout as it formally requests IMF help

Finance minister Euclid Tsakalotos writes to IMF head Christine Lagarde seeking new loan but sources say ‘logistical problems’ are delaying talks.
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

AFAIK logistical problems are the problems getting a safe place for the Troika to work from.
peaceful_life
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Post by peaceful_life »

johnhemming2 wrote:AFAIK logistical problems are the problems getting a safe place for the Troika to work from.
Over 60% of the democratic vote don't want what's being offered by the troika.
johnhemming2
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Post by johnhemming2 »

Probably higher in Greece, but the rest of the countries are unenthusiastic about paying the Greeks. Hence if you had a referendum in the other countries you would get a different outcome.
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