Greece Watch...

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 22 Jul 2015, 22:14

Interestingly they are having a debate tonight about changes to the civil code, but I have not been able to find out from the media reports what the argument is actually about.

Does anyone know?

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 23 Jul 2015, 07:58

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... ilout-vote

Greek parliament approves next phase in bailout reforms

Large majority of MPs including Yanis Varoufakis, the renegade former finance minister, approves further measures required to qualify for €86bn in loans.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 23 Jul 2015, 08:13

I find it sad that these press reports give no real indication of what the debates are about with any detail about the proposals and reasons why anyone opposes them. That, however, is not unusual.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 23 Jul 2015, 08:34

The papers only report what TPTB want us to know. When I used to read the Sunday Times - a few years back - I used to joke that you had to turn to the back 4 pages to get to the real news.... I don't know if that is still true....

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 23 Jul 2015, 08:38

For what it is worth I predict that Greece will do what is required to get their bailout (as they have no choice currently) and will then default when they reach the future point of not being able to afford to make the repayments.

At which point they will have printed enough Drachma and have got their act together enough to have all the processes in place to leave the Euro and revert to the Drachma. In my opinion the only reason they didn't default this time was they simply weren't ready to revert to Drachma.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 23 Jul 2015, 08:39

I think it is more driven by the journalists having so little time to write stories that they have not got the time to do the research.

It is just sad that the editors are not interested in informing people and willing to pay for useful information.

I suppose the problem is that if one newspaper does the research all the others will report it without paying for it.

At least we can gio back to source, but when the source is in Greek it is much harder.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 23 Jul 2015, 09:01

snow hope wrote:For what it is worth I predict that Greece will do what is required to get their bailout (as they have no choice currently) and will then default when they reach the future point of not being able to afford to make the repayments.

At which point they will have printed enough Drachma and have got their act together enough to have all the processes in place to leave the Euro and revert to the Drachma. In my opinion the only reason they didn't default this time was they simply weren't ready to revert to Drachma.

+1. Sounds like a plan to me.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 23 Jul 2015, 09:10

Two issues:

a) This is many years down the tracks.

b) Printing Drachma does not stop them owing Euros.

c) As soon as they started detailed planning for leaving the Euro there would be major stress.

d) The Eurozone trust the as much as any remaining Trojans anyway.

(FWIW that's four issues)

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 23 Jul 2015, 10:20

johnhemming2 wrote:Two issues:

a) This is many years down the tracks.

b) Printing Drachma does not stop them owing Euros.

c) As soon as they started detailed planning for leaving the Euro there would be major stress.

d) The Eurozone trust the as much as any remaining Trojans anyway.

(FWIW that's four issues)

61% of the people have voted for self determination, that's the main issue.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 23 Jul 2015, 15:09

This article moved me to tears last night.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/featur ... 03300.html

Greece through the eyes of the homeless

A homeless woman was given a camera and asked to document life on the streets of Athens.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 23 Jul 2015, 17:05

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33615113

Greece debt crisis: How did Yanis Varoufakis do?

An interview with Mark Lobel - BBC News.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 23 Jul 2015, 17:32

peaceful_life wrote:61% of the people have voted for self determination, that's the main issue.

That's not what Tsipras thinks.

Then again he knows what the Drachma would mean.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 23 Jul 2015, 17:44

johnhemming2 wrote:
peaceful_life wrote:61% of the people have voted for self determination, that's the main issue.
That's not what Tsipras thinks.

Then again he knows what the Drachma would mean.

Utter f***ing bullshit. You have no more idea than anyone else of what Tsipras thinks other than what he has stated he thinks. And that is pretty clear, He has more or less stated in terms that what he and his government is being forced to do in the name of the Troika to his country is an unmitigated and disastrous act of barbarism. But, that he had little choice given the act of economic terrorism wreaked on his country.

His only mistake was to assume that the European Union was precisely that. a Union, instead of a Fourth Reich in the making

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 23 Jul 2015, 17:58

johnhemming2 wrote:
peaceful_life wrote:61% of the people have voted for self determination, that's the main issue.
That's not what Tsipras thinks.

Then again he knows what the Drachma would mean.

As has since been stated, recent events don't necessarily indicate that this one man agreed with those events, that's an assumption and it has no bearing on the fact that over 60% of folk voted for something else.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 23 Jul 2015, 18:08

Little John wrote:You have no more idea than anyone else of what Tsipras thinks other than what he has stated he thinks.

I think that is a pretty good start, however.

Really it is best to go at face value.