Greece Watch...

[emordnilap]

John Pilger, as usual, sums it all up very concisely.

For a small country such as Greece, the euro is a colonial currency: a tether to a capitalist ideology so extreme that even the Pope pronounces it "intolerable" and "the dung of the devil". The euro is to Greece what the US dollar is to remote territories in the Pacific, whose poverty and servility is guaranteed by their dependency.

'Even' the pope.

Er, Emo, I posted that article a little earlier in the thread..

Apols. I've been away and only skimmed recent threads. Liars like repeating their shíte till it becomes mainstream. We need to repeat truths.

[emordnilap]

How can we remove them if they are not operating in the best interests of all of its citizens?

Now there is a very good question, one to which we probably all know the answer.

[PS_RalphW]

Greek deputy finance minister has resigned, presumably with the intention of voting against the EU agreement.

Cameron is calling for re-financing of the Greek debt, presumably because otherwise UK money would be used to partly fund the bailout, and he gave a categorical promise that would not happen.

IMF is basically saying Greece can't pay, and won't put good money after bad.

I really don't see this vote passing, I think the Euro is holed below the water line.

EDIT

reading an analysis of voting intentions by the Greek parties, it would take a massive rebellion by his own party to lose the vote, although the government could (will? ) collapse even if it wins the vote.

More than half of the 200 members of the Syriza central committee are opposed to the deal. However, only 15 of those are MPs.

[Little John]

In which case if the MPs vote for it, the party proper will collapse and/or those same MPs will need to take the tradesman's exit when they leave the parliament tonight, possibly with armed guards in tow.

[johnhemming2]

It is self-evident that the ECB et al have been operating above their supposed mandate. Who are they accountable to? How can we remove them if they are not operating in the best interests of all of its citizens? (Which it has quite probably never done, ever)

Firstly I don't agree. As soon as Greece was outside the programme ELA increase had to stop. It is arguable that ELA should have been capped at an earlier stage and that Greece did not quality for ELA at all post 30th June.

Secondly the same issue relates to Judges. How are judges held to account. I have studied this in some detail because of the secret jailings that have been going on in the UK (most of which I have stopped happening in secret - working with the media).

The ECB council has a member from the central bank of each country and those people are subject to some system of accountability probably through the finance ministry, potentially through the parliament.

When you say "we" that is not everyone. The German population, it appears, believe that Germany is being too kind to Greece. I am not sure that a majority from the UK wish to offer any cash to Greece.

There is a need in the constitution for people who are not directly democratically accountable. There are indirect systems for that. For example apart from the Judges the information commissioner is not a creature of government (he is appointed by parliament).

Syriza have a real challenge. The EZ will not take the garotte away from Tsipras' throat because of his unreliability. Hence they are massively into the political somersault.

In the end they really should either have given in months ago or gone for IOUs (the Drachma option).

[3rdRock]

http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... ipras-live

Riot police have clashed with anarchist groups in Athens tonight, as Greece’s PM Tsipras faces rebellion over the country’s bailout plan

No surprises there.

'Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime' - Aristotle.

[3rdRock]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... nst-greeks

Radical left protests in Germany over bailout deal ‘coup’ against Greeks

Divisions emerge within Angela Merkel’s CDU party over whether to back deal as demonstrations take place in 14 cities over austerity package imposed on Greece.

[Little John]

Violent protests erupting across Athens.

Live feed of parliamentary bailout debate here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX9IWbal5lo

[snow hope]

Gobsmacked - they have accepted the blackmail

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33535205

[3rdRock]

Gobsmacked - they have accepted the blackmail

+1

Latest: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33546352

PM Tsipras 'focused on bailout deal'

[3rdRock]

Some facts and figures

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33507802

How bad are things for the people of Greece?

The people of Greece are facing further years of economic hardship following a Eurozone agreement over the terms of a third bailout.

The deal included more tax rises and spending cuts, despite the Syriza government coming to power promising to end what it described as the "humiliation and pain" of austerity.

With the country having already endured years of economic contraction since the global downturn, just how does Greece's ordeal compare with other recessions and how have the lives of the country's people been affected?

[johnhemming2]

Their choice was either to co-operate with the Eurozone or to set up their own currency. That has been the case for months.

[snow hope]

Stark choice it turns out.

We can all see how they have been hung out to dry by the Euro Group.

Thank goodness the UK never joined the Euro - what a disgusting group to have the misfortune to be a member of.....

[johnhemming2]

As you know I personally think the Eurozone has been quite reasonable in all of this and it is the greeks who have wanted to eat their cake and still have it.

[snow hope]

For some reason John, most people on here disagree with you. Maybe you should try to open up your mind and try to understand why people see things in a different light than you do.