The Eurozone crisis/break-up may crash the system?

[biffvernon]

Trouble is redrawing either cultural or currency boundaries does not create more oil. So it won't make any difference.

[Little John]

Trouble is redrawing either cultural or currency boundaries does not create more oil. So it won't make any difference.

Quite so. The fall is coming irrespective.

However, the redrawing of national boundaries, currency manipulation and all other political machinations will determine the rate of descent and also who gets to hit the bottom the hardest.

[Aurora]

Analysis - BBC iPlayer

Eurogeddon II

As the crisis in the Eurozone continues, Chris Bowlby examines what might eventually emerge and what that could mean for us.

First broadcast on BBC Radio 4 on Monday, 25th June.

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01k1nh0

[UndercoverElephant]

Analysis - BBC iPlayer

Eurogeddon II

As the crisis in the Eurozone continues, Chris Bowlby examines what might eventually emerge and what that could mean for us.

First broadcast on BBC Radio 4 on Monday, 25th June.

See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01k1nh0

And explains why France can't accept the political consequences of a full union either. The Germans would have to demand that sovereignty would automatically transfer to the European level if budget rules aren't met. And that would mean that Germany had ultimate control over France's nuclear deterrent. I cannot see the French being able to accept this, but I also can't see the Germans accepting that they effectively pay the bill for a French nuclear deterrent which is partly there as a reminder to the Germans that they lost WWII.

I still believe we are actually heading towards uncontainable bank runs in the eurozone, and defaults.

[energy-village]

National interests are represented by mere politicians. If this is a battle between the national politicians and those who control the bulk of the debt I'm not sure the nation state will win. There are hundreds of billions, even trillions, of debt-based assets at stake. "Big Boy Rules".

[UndercoverElephant]

National interests are represented by mere politicians. If this is a battle between the national politicians and those who control the bulk of the debt I'm not sure the nation state will win. There are hundreds of billions, even trillions, of debt-based assets at stake. "Big Boy Rules".

Not if they depend on the politicians for legislation, and the politicians can't sell whatever they need to sell to the electorate.

[SleeperService]

Am interesting alternative view

http://blogs.reuters.com/anatole-kalets ... vely-easy/

Breakup from the top and bottom a possibility?

[Aurora]

BBC News - 29/06/12

EU leaders have agreed to use the eurozone's bailout fund to support struggling banks directly, without adding to government debt.

Speaking after 13 hours of talks in Brussels', EU chief Herman van Rompuy also said a eurozone-wide supervisory body for banks would be created.

Officials said the plans could be finalised during July.

Analysts say Germany appears to have given ground after pressure from Spain and Italy to provide more support.

The two southern European countries had withheld support from an earlier plan to for a growth package worth 120bn euros (£96bn; $149bn).

They wanted measures to lower their borrowing costs.

Mr Rompuy said the new proposals would break the "vicious circle" between banks and national governments.

Article continues ...

[PS_RalphW]

Oil jumps $2 on the news.

What proportion of the bail out cash going straight to the pockets of OPEC does that represent ?

[UndercoverElephant]

BBC News - 29/06/12

EU leaders have agreed to use the eurozone's bailout fund to support struggling banks directly, without adding to government debt.

Speaking after 13 hours of talks in Brussels', EU chief Herman van Rompuy also said a eurozone-wide supervisory body for banks would be created.

Officials said the plans could be finalised during July.

Analysts say Germany appears to have given ground after pressure from Spain and Italy to provide more support.

The two southern European countries had withheld support from an earlier plan to for a growth package worth 120bn euros (£96bn; $149bn).

They wanted measures to lower their borrowing costs.

Mr Rompuy said the new proposals would break the "vicious circle" between banks and national governments.

Article continues ...

Wooooooohahahahahahaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

Oh boy, that Mr Rumpy-Pumpy is some comedian. Sure, 100bn more should do the trick. I mean...it's only a 1700bn black hole, and growing daily...

[UndercoverElephant]

http://www.financialsense.com/contribut ... e-end-game

Many are the events, signals, and telltale clues of a real live actual systemic failure in progress. Until the last several months, such banter was dismissed by the soldiers in the financial arena. But lately, they cannot dismiss the onslaught of evidence, a veritable plethora of ugly symptoms of conditions gone terribly wrong and solutions at best gone awry and at worst never intended in the first place. My theory has been steady from the TARP Fund scandal and the Too Big To Fail mantra of deceit. The plan all along since the breakdown began in September 2008 has been to preserve power, to maintain intact the insolvent banks an operational crew of zombies, to aid the financial sector bound in Wall Street, to pay benign neglect to Main Street and businesses (expect for symbols like General Motors), to expand the propaganda of a fictional recovery, and to maintain the endless wars. The wars serve two purposes, to enable significant fraud from overcharged services, and to hold open the gateways for sizeable money laundering flows into the Wall Street banks, those hollow structures that closely resemble a coke addict with dark teeth, wretched bones, wasted organs, lost attention, and a listless gait. The Greek showcase is coming to a neighborhood near you in Western Europe and Great Britain, soon to feature debuts across North America. No, the United States is not immune from the horrors of ruin since its marquee billboards read Zero Percent. It only means the wrecking ball works from the inside out, serving as the central needle in the Black Hole. An outline of the End Game can be written. This article is not comprehensive by any means. But it serves as a decent posting on an outhouse wall. Consider the following as musings in observation of Uncle Sam on death row. They bear no logical flow, just random concepts.

When the paper mache artisans start talking about a total of $10 to $12 trillion for Western Europe, the United Kingdom, and the United States combined, then they will be seriously planning a banking system recapitalization. They prefer the futile incremental approach, with the proviso of not liquidating the big banks. The hilarious factor is that even $10 trillion would not work, but it would indeed buy another couple years, maybe three years. So if an alcoholic has the Delirious Tremens, the consensus stupidity calls for feeding him a higher proof Jack Daniels whisky and from a vat for intravenous application, which will revive him, when a mere few liters would not. It is utterly amazing that Bernanke and Draghi are given any respect at all. This is utterly absurd, since the wrong-footed solution is going to be simply higher volume of what does not succeed in reviving the system. When they start talking about big bank liquidation and a new gold-backed monetary system, then expect some traction. But such a plan would involve plowing the system under and removing the bankers from power. Until then, plan for a bigger killing field. The great tragedy is that the killing field is the entire Western monetary system, attached at the hip to the Western Economic system. Witness the gradual collapse.

[Little John]

http://www.financialsense.com/contribut ... e-end-game

Many are the events, signals, and telltale clues of a real live actual systemic failure in progress. Until the last several months, such banter was dismissed by the soldiers in the financial arena. But lately, they cannot dismiss the onslaught of evidence, a veritable plethora of ugly symptoms of conditions gone terribly wrong and solutions at best gone awry and at worst never intended in the first place. My theory has been steady from the TARP Fund scandal and the Too Big To Fail mantra of deceit. The plan all along since the breakdown began in September 2008 has been to preserve power, to maintain intact the insolvent banks an operational crew of zombies, to aid the financial sector bound in Wall Street, to pay benign neglect to Main Street and businesses (expect for symbols like General Motors), to expand the propaganda of a fictional recovery, and to maintain the endless wars. The wars serve two purposes, to enable significant fraud from overcharged services, and to hold open the gateways for sizeable money laundering flows into the Wall Street banks, those hollow structures that closely resemble a coke addict with dark teeth, wretched bones, wasted organs, lost attention, and a listless gait. The Greek showcase is coming to a neighborhood near you in Western Europe and Great Britain, soon to feature debuts across North America. No, the United States is not immune from the horrors of ruin since its marquee billboards read Zero Percent. It only means the wrecking ball works from the inside out, serving as the central needle in the Black Hole. An outline of the End Game can be written. This article is not comprehensive by any means. But it serves as a decent posting on an outhouse wall. Consider the following as musings in observation of Uncle Sam on death row. They bear no logical flow, just random concepts.

When the paper mache artisans start talking about a total of $10 to $12 trillion for Western Europe, the United Kingdom, and the United States combined, then they will be seriously planning a banking system recapitalization. They prefer the futile incremental approach, with the proviso of not liquidating the big banks. The hilarious factor is that even $10 trillion would not work, but it would indeed buy another couple years, maybe three years. So if an alcoholic has the Delirious Tremens, the consensus stupidity calls for feeding him a higher proof Jack Daniels whisky and from a vat for intravenous application, which will revive him, when a mere few liters would not. It is utterly amazing that Bernanke and Draghi are given any respect at all. This is utterly absurd, since the wrong-footed solution is going to be simply higher volume of what does not succeed in reviving the system. When they start talking about big bank liquidation and a new gold-backed monetary system, then expect some traction. But such a plan would involve plowing the system under and removing the bankers from power. Until then, plan for a bigger killing field. The great tragedy is that the killing field is the entire Western monetary system, attached at the hip to the Western Economic system. Witness the gradual collapse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... 8_06_2012/

10 minutes in....

[Aurora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... 8_06_2012/

10 minutes in....

Thanks for that Steve.

[UndercoverElephant]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... 8_06_2012/

10 minutes in....

Thanks for that Steve.

I got as far as "Raising taxes on bankers would be a bad idea. Don't forget the City employs thousands of people." and stopped watching it. They can turn the gherkin into a hotel for all I care.

EDIT: OK..went back and watched the rest of it. I think this is a turning point for attitudes towards the banks.

[Little John]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... 8_06_2012/

10 minutes in....

Thanks for that Steve.

I got as far as "Raising taxes on bankers would be a bad idea. Don't forget the City employs thousands of people." and stopped watching it. They can turn the gherkin into a hotel for all I care.

EDIT: OK..went back and watched the rest of it. I think this is a turning point for attitudes towards the banks.

Yep

Surely this particular scandal cannot be simply swept under the carpet and forgotten. If it is played down by the establishment then this will demonstrate something very important to the people. It will tell them that the elites who run our lives do not give a shit about truth, justice and the people.

It will hammer home yet another nail in the coffin of the delusion that these f*ckers actually care.

They don't care.

They don't care at all.

AT ALL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peX4dBEF0Vg