Migrant watch (merged topic)

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 19 Feb 2016, 10:40

http://shoebat.com/2016/02/12/93242/ calais resident talking about what its like to live in calais

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 19 Feb 2016, 19:07

Nice to see that 69,754 (at the last count) agree with me, even if somebody here doesn't.

https://speakout.38degrees.org.uk/campa ... pen-letter

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 19 Feb 2016, 19:48

Somebody has to be the last to catch on.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 23 Feb 2016, 00:46

Another brick in the wall:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35629921

Migrant crisis: Macedonia border closure strands thousands in Greece

Thousands of migrants and refugees have been stranded near Athens and on Greece's northern border after Macedonia stopped allowing Afghans in.

More than 5,000 people were stuck at or near the border and at one point several tried to storm the fence. Four thousand more arrived by sea from the Aegean islands at Piraeus port.

Macedonia said on Sunday it was following other governments by allowing in only Syrians and Iraqis.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 23 Feb 2016, 00:49

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35291577

At every border along the refugee trail, through Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, Denmark and Sweden, the welcome is cooling, the checks are getting tougher, and people are being turned back.

Here at Idomeni there is just one small gate, right by the railway line, where refugees can pass.

A Macedonian policeman, with a magnifying glass in hand, stands by it, scrutinising the documents of every single person attempting to cross.

The refugees wait in line for their turn.

"You, you can pass," the policeman says to a family with small children. They shuffle through.

"You. No," says the policeman to a young Middle Eastern man. He turns back.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 23 Feb 2016, 04:45

biffvernon wrote:Nice to see that 69,754 (at the last count) agree with me, even if somebody here doesn't.

https://speakout.38degrees.org.uk/campa ... pen-letter

You wonder about the age of the people who think like you

http://kdwn.com/2016/02/22/liberal-hitc ... d-instead/

Couple of years old but italian women travels the middle to prove muslims are not dangerous hitchhiking, her naked body was found in turkey after she was raped and murdered by a peaceful muslim.

I imagine you limit the information you get so you stay in your own bubble, you can tell your doing that by the way you don't answer questions and say you dont read what other people post .

But if you didnt do that you would find hundreds of cases of women being raped in europe who were pro migration, you just need to read storys that happen and that are covered by anti migration pages .

The pro migration pages are all like you, people in their bubbles, and they don't print or write about attacks, stick your head in a hole and your arse in the air and you don't see whats happening around you

So we have nearly 70,000 people who are in a bubble or that are children that agree with you, thats a bit sad or they are a bit sad, but not that impressive

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 23 Feb 2016, 20:07

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35643951

The EU says it is making plans to deal with a possible humanitarian crisis as new border controls halt migrants moving through the Balkans.

Greece has also expressed "displeasure" after the controls left thousands of migrants stranded in the country.

Thousands of migrants have been trapped in Greece after Macedonia barred entry to Afghans, days after Austria brought in new controls.

Latest figures show a huge rise in the numbers of migrants arriving in Europe.

The International Organization for Migration (IOM) says more than 100,000 asylum seekers have arrived so far this year, compared to fewer than 4,000 in the first two months of 2015.

OK, the word "invasion" is now appropriate. This is an invasion of Europe. Almost without exception these people are muslims and they are fleeing from wars largely caused by Islam and from states that have failed because of Islam. And they are bringing their poisonous religion with them.

But surely we are now seeing the start of the endgame. This is the coldest time of year, and is normally the quietest for migrants arriving. Presumably there are vast numbers of people now preparing to make the journey to Europe as soon as the weather starts to warm up, but they are not going to be allowed any further than Greece.

I am guessing this ends with the Greeks deliberately sinking migrant boats.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 23 Feb 2016, 21:50

And, of course, the Greeks will then be used as scapegoats for all of the dysfunctions of the Wider EU

Again.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 24 Feb 2016, 15:46

More than half a million people fleeing violence and human rights abuses, mostly from South Sudan, Burundi and the Democratic Republic of Congo, have now found protection and safety in Uganda.

By early December, Uganda had become home to almost 511,000 refugees and asylum-seekers, the highest number ever in the country's history. More than 100,000 have so far arrived in 2015, making Uganda the third-largest refugee-hosting country in Africa, after Ethiopia (736,000) and Kenya (594,000).

Uganda is widely recognized as having progressive and forward-thinking refugee and asylum policies. Upon receiving refugee status, refugees are provided with small areas of land in villages integrated within the local host community; a pioneering approach that enhances social cohesion and allows both refugees and host communities to live together peacefully.

http://www.unhcr.org/567414b26.html

Perish the thought that the UK would ever have 'progressive and forward-thinking policies.'

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 24 Feb 2016, 16:54

And you were a geography teacher, were you?

Take a look at a map of Uganda, Biff. Note how much undeveloped green space there is.

Now take a look at the UK. Note how much conurbation and farmland there is, and how little undeveloped green space.

But at least you didn't try to blame white Europeans for the problems in Sudan, Burundi and Congo. I guess we should be thankful for small mercies.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 24 Feb 2016, 19:44

I am saddened at your response, UE, since three of the four lines in your post are personalised, ad hominem or patronising rather than addressing the issue. Maybe I am making a mistake to read your posts again.

On the matter of geography however, I have taken your advice to look at the UK. Here, according to Wikipedia, are population densities for various parts of the British Isles and, by way of comparison, Uganda. I don't consider these data hold much significance for the issue of whether we have 'progressive and forward-thinking policies', but here they are anyway.

Wales 148/km2
Scotland 67/km2
England 407/km2
Northern Ireland 131/km2
Ireland 73.4/km2
UK 216/km2
Uganda 137/km2

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 24 Feb 2016, 20:18

If you are going to compare Uganda and the UK for support for refugees you should also look at what financial support is provided.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 24 Feb 2016, 21:20

biffvernon wrote: Maybe I am making a mistake to read your posts again.

And how do you think I feel reading yours?

You are still continually arguing or implying that the UK should be accepting unlimited numbers of migrants, and suggesting that by not doing so, we are not being "progressive" or "forward thinking".

Everybody, not just me, is sick of it. We're sick of being accused of "not being progressive" or "backwards thinking" when in fact the tide of both public and political opinion is decisively swinging behind us. The truth is it is your position which behind the times.

I, and others, have consistently argued that an open-door policy to migrants wanting to come to Europe is unsustainable on the grounds that by allowing anyone who wants to to come in, you will just encourage ever more of them to come. In other words, by open the doors you are not reducing the number of displaced people, but actually increasing it, because untold millions want to come. This is not a temporary situation; it is a permanent reality.

And that is exactly what has happened, Biff. Germany opened its doors, and here we are, six months later, with twenty five times the number of migrants entering Europe than there were are this time last year.

That is the result of the implementation by Germany of the policies you are trying to tell us are "forward thinking".

When are you going to admit you are wrong, Biff? When there's 200,000 a month coming into Europe and the far right is being propelled to power everywhere? When there's 300,000 a month coming and the far right are rounding them up and shooting them?

What will it take for you to actually admit you are wrong, and stop accusing everybody else of being backwards when, in reality, we were right.

The policies you advocate are not progressive. They are unrealistic, counter-productive and unsustainable. Please accept it.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 24 Feb 2016, 21:25

biffvernon wrote: I don't consider these data hold much significance for the issue of whether we have 'progressive and forward-thinking policies', but here they are anyway.

England 407/km2
Uganda 137/km2

So England is already three times as densely populated as Uganda. I'd say that was significant, especially given that there is not much prospect of settling migrants in the sparsely populated, mainly mountainous parts of Wales and Scotland.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 24 Feb 2016, 21:52

UndercoverElephant wrote:You are still continually arguing or implying that the UK should be accepting unlimited numbers of migrants, and suggesting that by not doing so, we are not being "progressive" or "forward thinking".

No, I didn't. Yet another strawman. I linked to a UNHCR article and added a line with a phrase picked from the article which I thought worth thinking about.

Just let me know when you are prepared to discuss things politely. Till then...