Migrant watch (merged topic)

[johnhemming2]

It doesn't matter how the f*** it got going! It's what we do about it now that counts.

Your second sentence is the key one. It does matter as to what the involvement of the west was in getting it going because we should learn not to do this (see also Afghanistan).

[Little John]

It doesn't matter how the f*** it got going! It's what we do about it now that counts.

Your second sentence is the key one. It does matter as to what the involvement of the west was in getting it going because we should learn not to do this (see also Afghanistan).

It is of course obvious that ISIS is largely a construction of Western forces in order to fight yet another proxy war with Russia in Syria in a strategic carbon copy of what was done with the Taliban in Afghanistan with roughly the same outcome. That is to say, the Yank oligarchy and their various vassal states should not be surprised that if they choose to sup with the devil, they need to take a very long spoon with them. Of course, all of that must be acknowledged.

However, it is first necessary to point out that there is no "we" about this. I did not support the various disastrous military adventures in the middle East and north Africa. Nor, I suspect, did the vast majority of the ordinary people of this country.

Notwithstanding any of the above, the problem of an existential conflict within Islam between the "modernists", so far as they exist, and the hard line fundamentalists, largely mapped onto, but not entirely, the Sunni/Shia divide, was always a tinder box ready to ignite. Thus, the various debacles instigated by Western military forces in the middle east might be more properly seen as triggers as opposed to sole causes.

In any event, it is what it is and nothing now, is going to change that. ISIS and their ilk must be destroyed utterly and we cannot afford to import their madness by proxy via the mass migration of refugees from that region. That is to say, irrespective of the implications of Western forces in that conflict we, the people, cannot afford for them to be here.

[Little John]

....remember finsbury park mosque the leader of the labour party did a all night vigil outside there recently . That mosque was linked to the sort of people who recruit for isis as well as domestic terrorism and plans for mass murder in the uk .

That taints every labour party supporter

No it does not. Pack it in.

[jonny2mad]

yes it does taint the labour party because they support Corbyn, you didnt see any protest in the labour party at Corbyns actions just support

The left, LGBT groups, anti racist groups are generally fellow travellers with Islamists . They stage protests that support them they gather funds that support islamist invasion .

They oppose people who oppose them, they attack their meetings they bring in laws to stop their free speech. They when in power cover their crimes,

I have stood up in anti racist meetings by our biggest anti racist group and been told we will join with any jihadi to fight the bnp and the right . Doesnt matter what views these jihadis have or what they do, the important thing is destroying people like the BNP .

you have feminist groups and socialists and communist groups opposing ex muslim women giving talks because it upset hardcore islamists thugs

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2015/ ... university

Every anti immigration or anti islamization protest will be met by leftists, same thing happened in the iranian revolution against the shah marxists and hardcore islamists on the same side .

[Little John]

yes it does taint the labour party because they support Corbyn, you didnt see any protest in the labour party at Corbyns actions just support

The left, LGBT groups, anti racist groups are generally fellow travellers with Islamists . They stage protests that support them they gather funds that support islamist invasion .

They oppose people who oppose them, they attack their meetings they bring in laws to stop their free speech. They when in power cover their crimes,

I have stood up in anti racist meetings by our biggest anti racist group and been told we will join with any jihadi to fight the bnp and the right . Doesnt matter what views these jihadis have or what they do, the important thing is destroying people like the BNP .

you have feminist groups and socialists and communist groups opposing ex muslim women giving talks because it upset hardcore islamists thugs

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2015/ ... university

Every anti immigration or anti islamization protest will be met by leftists, same thing happened in the iranian revolution against the shah marxists and hardcore islamists on the same side .

Hang on a minute, you are conflating the labour membership and the parliamentary party. And, at a more broad political level, the bourgeois, intellectualised left with ordinary, working class people like me who are left wing by instinct. It should have been rather obvious to one and all that there is quite a difference between the two. Furthermore, whilst I am with Corbyn an all domestic economic polices, I am implacably opposed to him on all matters related to immigration policies. Indeed, regarding even domestic economic policy, Corbyn is far too weak and mainstream for my liking since I am a full-on socialist. The problem is that I am also someone who realises full well the need for nation states to start looking after their immediate and existing populations before thinking about trying to save the rest of the world. The world is going to go to hell over the next few decades and is not save-able and so all that any individual nation-state can do is to make as many preparations to weather that storm as they are able.

In short, I am a national socialist who is currently compelled, in the absence of any realistic political alternative, to vote for the Labour Party. However, if Corbyn does not start to significantly wind his neck in on the immigration issue, that may change.

[kenneal - lagger]

...In short, I am a national socialist

That had a rather different connotation in my day! I thought you were left wing.

[Little John]

...In short, I am a national socialist

That had a rather different connotation in my day! I thought you were left wing.

I am left wing. I am also cognisant of the fact that each nation must look to itself to do whatever is necessary to protect what it can of a civilised, socialist life for all of its citizens. We cannot save the world.

That makes me, by virtue of straightforward intellectual reasoning, a national socialist. Whatever the hell that term meant 70 years ago, I couldn't care less about.

[emordnilap]

...In short, I am a national socialist

That had a rather different connotation in my day! I thought you were left wing.

I am left wing. I am also cognisant of the fact that each nation must look to itself to do whatever is necessary to protect what it can of a civilised, socialist life for all of its citizens. We cannot save the world.

That makes me, by virtue of straightforward intellectual reasoning, a national socialist. Whatever the hell that term meant 70 years ago, I couldn't care less about.

And by some measures, AH was comparatively left wing, which highlights the absurdity of the left/right meme.

[Little John]

That had a rather different connotation in my day! I thought you were left wing.

I am left wing. I am also cognisant of the fact that each nation must look to itself to do whatever is necessary to protect what it can of a civilised, socialist life for all of its citizens. We cannot save the world.

That makes me, by virtue of straightforward intellectual reasoning, a national socialist. Whatever the hell that term meant 70 years ago, I couldn't care less about.

And by some measures, AH was comparatively left wing, which highlights the absurdity of the left/right meme.

oh god now you have got me worried....

[fuzzy]

To be fair, we know what LJ means:

Politicians should have the interest of their country over others as a priority, and their highest priorities should be using legislation to try to equalise opportunity for all; help those who are in real need either through bad luck, a harder path through life or genetics; and reduce criminality. I think AH tried to help some of his people by sacrificing everyone else.

[biffvernon]

Politicians should have the interest of their country over others as a priority,

That's a view; other views are available. The trouble starts when politicians of different countries all put the interests of their own countries as a priority. The result tends to be war.

and their highest priorities should be using legislation to try to equalise opportunity for all; help those who are in real need either through bad luck, a harder path through life or genetics; and reduce criminality

Exactly. And I trust you did mean 'all'.

[UndercoverElephant]

Politicians should have the interest of their country over others as a priority,

That's a view; other views are available.

Only to immoral fools.

If politicians of country X put in their manifesto that they will act in the interests of foreigners equally to those of the citizens of country X and they get elected then they have an obligation to do exactly that. They would not get elected, as you well know.

Meanwhile, back in reality, where politicians are elected to serve the interests of the peope of their own country, any politician who prioritises the interests of foreigners is a textbook example of a traitor and would be acting in a deeply unethical manner. Starting a war is rarely in the interest of a country.

But don't let any little details like behaving ethically get in the way of your infantile nonsense.

[emordnilap]

[jonny2mad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGfP8CyJAhg 16 y/o german girl talking about what she thinks of migrant situation and her experiences

The facebook accounts where this video were originally posted have been disabled For hate speech

[jonny2mad]

Well the vast majority of animals birds and fish are territorial, so are humans we also divide in tribes and fight over territory. so its a bit like a baby wolf complaining he was born in a wolf pack