Greece Watch...

[UndercoverElephant]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... rexit.html

Greece has threatened to seek a court injunction against the EU institutions, both to block the country's expulsion from the euro and to halt asphyxiation of the banking system.

“The Greek government will make use of all our legal rights,” said the finance minister, Yanis Varoufakis.

“We are taking advice and will certainly consider an injunction at the European Court of Justice. The EU treaties make no provision for euro exit and we refuse to accept it. Our membership is not negotiable,“ he told the Telegraph.

Ha! What a mess. Eurocracy gone off the rails.

[UndercoverElephant]

I have a few questions.
Assuming the banks in Greece stay closed and no further credit is extended to Greece just how will things play out?

If the Greek banks stay closed then Greece returns to a cash-and-barter economy. No cheques, no cards, no electronic transfers of funds.

Will paychecks come into accounts on payday? Will welfare and pension checks get mailed or direct deposited and if they are mailed how will anyone cash them?

No.

Is the whole country on a "Cash on delivery" COD basis?

Yes.

Will the limited amount of cash in circulation cause deflation and lower prices on goods and services that can be sold for cash?

Don't know.

[adam2]

I do not expect that the reduced volume of money circulating in Greece will lead to significant deflation for portable goods.
If a Greek producer of say wine or olive oil reduces prices, then even a modest reduction will result in increased sales to people from neighbouring countries. So any minor fall in prices is self correcting AND brings in more money from neighbouring countries.

However in the case of non portable goods such as land, buildings, or leisure services, then Deflation is likely.

[emordnilap]

Never has the need for resilient local currencies been more badly needed.

[Little John]

For what it's worth:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gree ... und#/story

[emordnilap]

For what it's worth:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gree ... und#/story

OK, a voucher for a bottle of Greek wine on its way to me.

[johnhemming]

Capital Control Means Greeks Can Click, Not Buy
http://www.voanews.com/content/capital- ... 43061.html

Unsurprising. Greeks can pay each other with credit cards I assume, but not anyone outside the country. (or more precisely through a bank based outside the country). Obviously if they have a credit card with a bank outside the country then they can pay anyone (I assume).

[3rdRock]

A little something to lighten the mood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQwiqrCr0Wc

[Little John]

Little John>"And we wont have to agree to disagree."

I am not sure what you mean by this. I accept that we disagree. You prefer communism I prefer capitalism.

I do not intend to attempt to force you to agree with me. To that extent I accept (and agree) that we disagree.

What are you suggesting?

There's a storm coming in this world. The Ukrainian Crisis, the Middle East and North Africa in flames, the mass migrations of half of humanity, the growing standoff between the USA, with it spineless, fully bought up lackeys and Russia/China; these things are all connected. What you and people like you stand for is more of the same kind of politics that appeared (but only appeared), at least on the face of it, to serve (at least us in the West), well enough for the last 60 odd years. That politics, though, is now irreparably broken.

In these extreme times, an extreme political response is not only required. It is inevitable. The only choice we get is whether it is one that serves the common good or one that serves the interests of a tiny minority. Each of us will have to decide which side we are on. There will be no middle ground. You have to decide which side you are on. So far, I will assume that you are simply too wedded, by virtue of your background, to fully face up to this stark choices facing all of us and are clinging to the defunct hope that we can somehow muddle through with, albeit a somewhat modified, BAU.

Make no mistake, though; the divide in this kind of debate is going to get ever more fractious as the stakes become ever higher. We may as well just accept that. For me, your kind of politics, being as progressively divorced from the needs of ordinary people as it is, will be just as likely to drive people into the arms of the fascists as it will into the arms of the socialists and if I am forced to choose between fascism and communism, I too choose communism every time.

[johnhemming]

I think resource depletion will cause stress in societies across the world. However,that is not because private property rights are inherently the wrong basis upon which to organise society.

[clv101]

...we can somehow muddle through with, albeit a somewhat modified, BAU.

That's what we've been doing for many decades. It's a brave man who calls the revolution (tipping point etc...) today. I think it's probably more likely we'll continue to muddle through. Even if the historians latter identify a specific point of change (was it Arab Spring? Crimea? Grexit? etc...) it's unlikely to have been recognised as such at the time by the folk on the ground.

The broad trends have been clear for ages, the details no one can predict.

[adam2]

Please keep reasonably polite and at least somewhat on the topic of the crisis in GREECE. Posts that consist primarily of personal insults are liable to be deleted, as are quotes thereof and replies thereto. posts that are completely off topic are also liable to deletion.

[biffvernon]

Muddling along is certainly the order of the day and the Greeks are doubtless as capable of muddling along as any, but their part of the Med is likely to suffer worse climate change and more quickly than our corner of Europe. How many decades have they got?

[Little John]

I do support a capitalist system

At least one person here has said he would prefer communism

That argument is so last century. Both systems, as practised so far, have failed in as much as they have led us to the brink of climate catastrophe. To support either seems to me to support the end of civilisation.

Notwithstanding the very existence of large number of humans are going to put the environment under pressure, communism has done so far less than capitalism. The thing is, capitalism is far superior to communism in allocating resources. And that is why it is has proved so much worse for our environment. Take a look at European soils and check out which are the most inherently fertile, You will find it is, for the most part, the ex-soviet countries. the reason being they did not farm their lands efficiently to death.

Oh yes, capitalism is very efficient.

[3rdRock]

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ill-needed

IMF: austerity measures would still leave Greece with unsustainable debt

Secret documents show creditors’ baseline estimate puts debt at 118% of GDP in 2030, even if it signs up to all tax and spending reforms demanded by troika.