Blackouts this winter?

Eternal Sunshine · Post by **Eternal Sunshine** » 30 Sep 2008, 15:11

Am I right in thinking that my gas combi boiler won't work if there's a powercut? It has a digital display on the front - is the timer affected by a lack of electricity?

(And yes I agree it's a dumb question - I ought to already know the answer to this

)

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » 30 Sep 2008, 15:36

Quite a few gas appliances won't work in a black-out - boilers in particular. Most modern boilers have some sort of fan to extract noxious gasses and blow them outside. As a safety feature, the gas supply is cut off during a power failure since the fan is not able to operate, and there is then a real danger of carbon monoxide building up in the room. The same would be true for gas fridges or fires which rely on a mechanical exhaust system as opposed to a free-flow "chimney".

lancasterlad · Post by **lancasterlad** » 30 Sep 2008, 15:50

Our boiler packed up in the middle of a cold spell a couple of years ago. We're not extravagant with the boiler but the house became soooo cold within a day. We have a woodburner in the lounge which meant we at least had one warm room.

My point is, it is easy to forget how cold a house can become without heating. It's a long time since my first house where the windows froze on the inside!

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 30 Sep 2008, 17:00

lancasterlad wrote: It's a long time since my first house where the windows froze on the inside!

You're going soft!

lancasterlad · Post by **lancasterlad** » 30 Sep 2008, 17:22

Aye, it's cold up north!

Post by **adam2** » 30 Sep 2008, 17:29

Eternal Sunshine wrote:Am I right in thinking that my gas combi boiler won't work if there's a powercut? It has a digital display on the front - is the timer affected by a lack of electricity?

(And yes I agree it's a dumb question - I ought to already know the answer to this )

No modern gas boiler will work without electricity, it is required for not just the display but also for ignition, for an electric valve that controls the gas, and often for a pump as well.

The load is quite small though and you may wish to consider the use of a generator, UPS or invertor in case of power cuts.
If the boiler is permanently wired into the mains, this should be changed to a plug and socket arrangement. (this should be done by an electrician unless you or someone you know is experienced in such work)

It would then be simple to unplug the boiler from the mains and plug it into an alternative supply whenever needed.

This wont of course protect against any failure of the gas supply, but gas cuts are most unlikely for safety reasons.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 30 Sep 2008, 20:01

Forbes.com - 30/09/08

There should be plenty of power generation capacity to meet expected electricity demand in Britain this winter, network operator National Grid said on Tuesday.

The power supply system manager dismissed media reports that Britain faced possible electricity blackouts this winter after the company reduced its generation forecast for November last week.

'We have got enough to meet forecast demand,' a company spokesman said on Tuesday.

'There is 8 to 10 gigawatts of spare capacity to allow for plant breakdowns and so-on, and we have got a surplus above that.'

Article continues ...

What does the panel think?

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 30 Sep 2008, 20:16

RenewableCandy wrote:
lancasterlad wrote: It's a long time since my first house where the windows froze on the inside!
You're going soft!

Aye, life was so tough in OUR house, that in winter the oxygen froze out of the air. The youngest bairn had the job of stirring the pools of liquid gas on the floor to get some oxygen to the rest of us. You youngsters of today don't know owt abaht nowt.

Anwen · Post by **Anwen** » 30 Sep 2008, 21:53

Vortex wrote:
RenewableCandy wrote:
lancasterlad wrote: It's a long time since my first house where the windows froze on the inside!
You're going soft!
Aye, life was so tough in OUR house, that in winter the oxygen froze out of the air. The youngest bairn had the job of stirring the pools of liquid gas on the floor to get some oxygen to the rest of us. You youngsters of today don't know owt abaht nowt.

You had a FLOOR?? Posh kid, eh?!

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 30 Sep 2008, 22:14

We had a powercut all day on the towpath, so I'm told. I didnt really experience it because I was at work and the lights came back on just as I arrived home. Still, it makes me feel good that I have batteries, inverter and solar panel so it would take a fairly extended outages to make me notice. I like the flexibility and redundancy of the 12v system.

In the old days of course we 'ad to use t' candles, by 'eck.

Eternal Sunshine · Post by **Eternal Sunshine** » 01 Oct 2008, 20:49

adam2 wrote:No modern gas boiler will work without electricity, it is required for not just the display but also for ignition, for an electric valve that controls the gas, and often for a pump as well.

The load is quite small though and you may wish to consider the use of a generator, UPS or invertor in case of power cuts.
If the boiler is permanently wired into the mains, this should be changed to a plug and socket arrangement. (this should be done by an electrician unless you or someone you know is experienced in such work)

It would then be simple to unplug the boiler from the mains and plug it into an alternative supply whenever needed.

This wont of course protect against any failure of the gas supply, but gas cuts are most unlikely for safety reasons.

Thanks for the info Adam, I'll look into getting a generator. In the meantime I've been out and bought a bottle of gas for my old Calor gas fire, and checked it's still working.

Kieran · Post by **Kieran** » 02 Oct 2008, 01:31

Tess wrote:In the old days of course we 'ad to use t' candles, by 'eck.

Candles? Pah! You were lucky, all we had were bits of string that the postman dropped and a bit of earwax.

Anyway...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 864031.ece

Post by **adam2** » 02 Oct 2008, 08:03

Aurora wrote:
Forbes.com - 30/09/08

There should be plenty of power generation capacity to meet expected electricity demand in Britain this winter, network operator National Grid said on Tuesday.

The power supply system manager dismissed media reports that Britain faced possible electricity blackouts this winter after the company reduced its generation forecast for November last week.

'We have got enough to meet forecast demand,' a company spokesman said on Tuesday.

'There is 8 to 10 gigawatts of spare capacity to allow for plant breakdowns and so-on, and we have got a surplus above that.'

Article continues ...
What does the panel think?

I think we will be ok
IF ample uninterupted supplies of natural gas are available from Russia
IF we dont have an exceptionly cold winter
If the French continue to supply us with 2,000MW at peak times
IF we dont have an excessive number of plant breakdowns
IF no industrial disputes affect the electricity supply

Thats a lot of "IFS" though, and it would therefore be prudent to prepare.

Keepz · Post by **Keepz** » 02 Oct 2008, 08:20

adam2 wrote:
Aurora wrote:
Forbes.com - 30/09/08

There should be plenty of power generation capacity to meet expected electricity demand in Britain this winter, network operator National Grid said on Tuesday.

The power supply system manager dismissed media reports that Britain faced possible electricity blackouts this winter after the company reduced its generation forecast for November last week.

'We have got enough to meet forecast demand,' a company spokesman said on Tuesday.

'There is 8 to 10 gigawatts of spare capacity to allow for plant breakdowns and so-on, and we have got a surplus above that.'

Article continues ...
What does the panel think?
I think we will be ok
IF ample uninterupted supplies of natural gas are available from Russia
IF we dont have an exceptionly cold winter
If the French continue to supply us with 2,000MW at peak times
IF we dont have an excessive number of plant breakdowns
IF no industrial disputes affect the electricity supply

Thats a lot of "IFS" though, and it would therefore be prudent to prepare.

Same as every year, then. It's always the case that if something that affects electricity supply goes seriously wrong, then things might go seriously wrong with electricity supply. No system ever anywhere is ever going to be able to say, nothing that happens can possibly prevent us from keeping the lights on. At this stage there is no reason to conclude that it's particularly likely that any of these conditions will not be met, and in the case of a few of them it's quite likely that we could manage regardless.

Anybody would think from the tone of this thread that our electricity supply is on a knife edge, but that's simply not so. We have a good diversity of generating technologies, ample capacity, strong commercial incentives for supply to meet demand in the most efficient way and one of the most reliable transmission and distribution networks in the world.

Post by **adam2** » 03 Oct 2008, 09:17

It would appear that some DNOs (distribution network operators) have a policy of automaticly reducing the size of service fuses.
They could not be trying to reduce peak demand could they?

The claim is generaly made that the cable is too small/the fuse too large, though it must be said that they installed the cables and fuses in the first place!

Also a slightly doomerish article here regarding possible shortfalls and likely price increases
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 870571.ece