RevdTess wrote:...I'm more interested in discussing what might happen rather than what I want to happen.
Yes, this is a key point. I am far, far more interested in the process, the politics etc and actually boarding on agnostic when it comes to what I *want* to happen. I'm sure many think me to be some kind of arch-remainer, but it's just not true as I've said several times above. My position seems to be fairly rare though, at least among those discussing Brexit. Most people seem to be clearly for or against Brexit.
That said, I am hugely critical of how the politics has been handled over the last couple of years. Just a series of bad decisions leading to the dead end we're at now with just weeks to go.
The referendum itself should have been legally binding, with a broader franchise, and any legal irregularities bottomed out before action. A50 shouldn't have been triggered without a plan. The whole thing should have been handled by a cross-party group (maybe even a Government of national unity) instead making it all about the Tories. We shouldn't have had that snap general election... I blame May for most of this and believe her to be the worst Prime Minister we've had in decades.
+1
Think I'm probably also seen on here as a 'Remainer'....,
In fact, I didn't vote as I thought the question was far too simplistic and the legalities unclear.
This has clearly been borne out by the subsequent and on-going shambles....
Who knows where we go from here, but whichever way it is, the economy is bound to suffer.....
Suspect that the City of London will decide the outcome in the end....
I would be very strongly opposed to any increase in animal testing, and would indeed hope to see a substantial reduction.
It cant be that hard to pass a law that in effect says "if a product, or an existing ingredient of a product, has been on sale for at least a year in the UK, or in any EU country, then it is hereby approved in future without new testing"
And when testing IS required, I would use humans, not animals. Prisoners could be used, with the severity of the crime determining the nature of the test.
2 weeks inside for being drunk and disorderly= test a slightly different formulation of hair dye for example.
20 years inside for terrorism or murder= test a new medicine with significant risks.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
careful_eugene wrote:
My own position is that I voted to remain as I saw membership of the EU as a way of stopping the worst Tory ideology becoming reality
Exactly my position too. But this is also the same reason why many hate the EU, because it currently stops the Tories (and any govt actually) implementing their greatest ideological fantasies. This is still my deepest concern, not that the economy will be damaged (it'll eventually recover, at least for the rich) but because it liberates UK politicians to become more populist and hostile to minorities. It won't in any way help create the sort of cultural environment I'd like to live in.
So many times I've watched the UK govt forced by the EU to do something I thought was desperately important. So no surprise that many also see that as a terrible and undemocratic thing.
Why don't you support a Socialist Brexit RevdTress?
You do realise that one of the reasons Remain Tories are so pro-EU because they know that EU rules will stop Corbyn from going full-on socialist should they get to power.
The idea that the Tories have some secret rabid agenda makes me laugh. I wish that was the case. Sadly the Tories since 2010 have, apart from some austerity (which ended up a modified version of Alistair Darlings Labour austerity anyway), largely governed like a typical blairite centrist government.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
careful_eugene wrote:
My own position is that I voted to remain as I saw membership of the EU as a way of stopping the worst Tory ideology becoming reality
Exactly my position too. But this is also the same reason why many hate the EU, because it currently stops the Tories (and any govt actually) implementing their greatest ideological fantasies. This is still my deepest concern, not that the economy will be damaged (it'll eventually recover, at least for the rich) but because it liberates UK politicians to become more populist and hostile to minorities. It won't in any way help create the sort of cultural environment I'd like to live in.
So many times I've watched the UK govt forced by the EU to do something I thought was desperately important. So no surprise that many also see that as a terrible and undemocratic thing.
So, this would be the same EU that sacrificed Greece on the alter of the German banking system. Or, which actively collaborated in a CIA orchestrated neo-nazi coup in Kiev.
But, you are happy for national democracy, by your own admission, to be undermined so that the EU can undemocratically "protect" us.
You are a bona fide, ideologically possessed lunatic.
Labour has betrayed its heartlands and will now lose the next election. Or, will win it with such a minuscule majority it will be in no better position the the Tories to act decisively.
European Market wrote:
Regulatory compliance is the key to market access. In this case, the European Union alone determines the nature and extent of the compliance required.
Oh dear O dear O dear.
Chaotic thinking, stopped reading after paragraph 4. If you (CBA) cannot get basic cutting and pasting from a variety of sources into a coherent whole. Then you really should not put out a press release.
Anyway, just finished some work for a UK manufacturer of a hazardous chemical paste. It will be sold in a 114 countries and complies with all six major regulatory standards. Worldwide labelling will be the same, safety data sheets will be slightly different, data sets publicly available.
European chemicals industry is a very cosy cartel. I love a disruptor!!
Chaotic thinking, stopped reading after paragraph 4. If you (CBA) cannot get basic cutting and pasting from a variety of sources into a coherent whole. Then you really should not put out a press release.
Anyway, just finished some work for a UK manufacturer of a hazardous chemical paste. It will be sold in a 114 countries and complies with all six major regulatory standards. Worldwide labelling will be the same, safety data sheets will be slightly different, data sets publicly available.
European chemicals industry is a very cosy cartel. I love a disruptor!!
You're slipping - you usually don't read them at all....
REACH is the thorny issue - you've nicely avoided that....
Then there's the equivalents to REACH being introduced in South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, and soon to be in Turkey, Brazil......and hard-Brexit UK....and ??
It would be much easier if the whole world could agree on all regulations, but not in our lifetime....
It's not just the EU that operate cartels....., there's a reason why Mauritania is the only country in the world that trades solely on WTO rules.....
I have been to Mauritania. It's no poster child for trading anything at all. If anyone seriously wants to get lumped in with that level of chaos let the rest of us know how you get on.
True story. On the way through into Mali the customs office was open, but unattended. Waited a bit, no one turned up, rubber stamps etc lying on a desk so I stamped myself out.
"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools". Douglas Bader.
"The gender aspect of Brexit is still too overlooked. Of the people gathered in that Wetherspoons, 90% were men. In a recent YouGov poll, support for no deal was put at 22%, but whereas 28% of men were no-dealers, among women the figure was a paltry 16%.
There is something at play here similar to the belligerent masculinity channelled by Donald Trump: a yearning for all-or-nothing politics, enemies and endless confrontation, and an aggressive nostalgia. Some of the latter is shamelessly misogynistic, part of a macho bigotry that harks back to hierarchies of privilege that linger on, and blurs into racism.
But there is also an element that ought to attract empathy: a yearning for a world in which men were steelworkers, coalminers and welders, and a desperate quest for something – anything – that might allow their successors to do the same."
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
