adam2 wrote:
I think that the EU will collapse, so the sooner we get out the better.
You may well be right about the EU collapsing but do you really believe that if that happens somehow the UK will be safely insulated from the resulting clusterf**k?
In or out will not make a jot or tiddle of difference
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
As the EU collapses all of the internal tensions that already exist within EU countries due to Merkel's immigration policy insanity, plus all of the cross-border tensions between the North and South of the EU, will boil over and there could well be all kinds of real conflicts arise as the EU makes a final desperate attempt to impose their rule. Why the hell do you think they are hastily trying to set up an EU army? It's not to defend Europe against outsiders. It is to impose order internally as it all turns to shit. Whether or not it was the initial intention, the EU has become the German domination of Europe by other means.
We should of course pay any monies owing, but it would be reasonable to delay such payments until the EU have had their accounts audited, and all remaining members have agreed the accounts.
Now that's a good idea. The UK will never have to pay in that case. The crooked/corrupt/criminal EU is no more likely to have future accounts audited than past accounts.
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
Taoiseach's secret deal to break Brexit border stand-off
Ireland and the European Union have agreed that a new EU-UK treaty will apply the conditions of the single market and customs union to avoid the return of a hard border in Northern Ireland, the Sunday Independent has learned.
The agreed text between this country and the EU is designed to allow second-phase trade talks to proceed between the EU and the UK.
British Prime Minister Theresa May is expected to outline her position on the border in a meeting tomorrow with European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker ahead of an EU summit on December 14 and 15.
Should Mrs May accept the joint Ireland/EU position, the UK would then have a further period to come up with acceptable proposals to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
However, should the UK ultimately fail to devise a border arrangement agreed by all sides, then "the rules" of the customs union and single market would continue to apply in any future trade deal between the EU and UK, according to sources in Dublin.
Yesterday, the Sunday Independent was further given to understand that Ireland has an agreed EU text which also "copper-fastens" the common travel area between Ireland and the UK and associated citizens' rights, a transition period and a "commitment" to protect the Good Friday Agreement.
It seems that the Irish want all the benefits of being part of the UK while retaining their independence and their membership of the EU (a contradiction in terms!!) and the Northern Irish want all the benefits of being part of Ireland and the EU while being part of the UK and not part of Ireland. All very Irish!! Wanting their cake and eating it.
Lots of positive noises coming out of Brussels this morning, and apparently "we are just a few words away from agreeing a deal." Sounds like either somebody has caved in, or they are close to agreeing on the wording of a fudge which allows talks to progress to stage 2 without a real agreement on the border.
adam2 wrote:
I think that the EU will collapse, so the sooner we get out the better.
You may well be right about the EU collapsing but do you really believe that if that happens somehow the UK will be safely insulated from the resulting clusterf**k?
In or out will not make a jot or tiddle of difference
The collapse of the EU would have potentially serious consequences, even for a non member. We would not be totally insulated therefrom by leaving.
I would expect that as an independent nation that we could better react to changing circumstances, as might be caused by the EU imploding.
If we were still a member I believe that we would be liable for various emergency taxes, fees, charges, or levies in order to prop things up for a bit longer.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
If Northern Ireland can 'maintain regulatory alignment' with the EU... can Scotland too? Does this mean we have a hard border in the Irish sea now? How will be keep the US chlorinated chicken out of Northern Ireland?
Hey, we could always 'maintain regulatory alignment' across the whole UK?
DUP are still saying there can be no regulatory divergence between NI and rest of UK. Irish are saying they are satisfied there will be no regulatory divergence between NI and the Republic. The only way both can be true is if the whole of the UK stays in the customs union and single market, which TM has repeatedly ruled out.
UndercoverElephant wrote:The only way both can be true is if the whole of the UK stays in the customs union and single market, which TM has repeatedly ruled out.
Yep, it's getting closer. TM ruling something out means nothing, she's already done more 180 degree turns than a ballerina.
