BREAKING NEWS: The UK risks running out of energy capacity

[vtsnowedin]

Nothing simpler, more effective ,or fairer then just letting the price rise until demand balances supply. Any effort the government makes to make it more fair will be bungled by the usual bureaucratic inefficiency and political manipulations to the point that everyone pays more in the end and for much less certain and reliable supplies.

[adam2]

Nothing simpler, more effective ,or fairer then just letting the price rise until demand balances supply. Any effort the government makes to make it more fair will be bungled by the usual bureaucratic inefficiency and political manipulations to the point that everyone pays more in the end and for much less certain and reliable supplies.

Agree.

[AnOriginalIdea]

Indeed, that's the nature of the threat.

So when do we get to see the presentation then, compared to what actually happened during the past 7 years, and either the lack of supply, rolling blackouts and side effects of the threat, or none of the threat materializing, and an explanation as to why?

Anyone who has been around endless speculation on these topics, and the manufacturing of threats at the blink of an eye, could get a bit jaded on the next rounds of "threats", particularly if the actors involved haven't taken the time to learn the history of the threats made before which also never materialized, yet incorporate the exact same mechanisms to manufacture the newest version of "the threat".

[Blue Peter]

Nothing simpler, more effective ,or fairer then just letting the price rise until demand balances supply. Any effort the government makes to make it more fair will be bungled by the usual bureaucratic inefficiency and political manipulations to the point that everyone pays more in the end and for much less certain and reliable supplies.

Agree.

I'm not sure that I agree. I suspect that WW2 might have turned out differently if the UK had adopted a similar approach to food rather than rationing,


Peter.

[clv101]

AnOriginalIdea, it's not the middle of the decade yet.

[vtsnowedin]

Nothing simpler, more effective ,or fairer then just letting the price rise until demand balances supply. Any effort the government makes to make it more fair will be bungled by the usual bureaucratic inefficiency and political manipulations to the point that everyone pays more in the end and for much less certain and reliable supplies.

Agree.

I'm not sure that I agree. I suspect that WW2 might have turned out differently if the UK had adopted a similar approach to food rather than rationing,


Peter.

WW2 was indeed "Your finest hour" especially when you consider what the average Brit citizen endured without protest to do their bit.
But that was total war against a known evil, surrender to which was unimaginable or perhaps more correctly 'Horribly imaginable'. I doubt if you could get that level of cooperation from the public in the UK or anywhere else ever again.

[UndercoverElephant]

Peter.

WW2 was indeed "Your finest hour" especially when you consider what the average Brit citizen endured without protest to do their bit.
But that was total war against a known evil, surrender to which was unimaginable or perhaps more correctly 'Horribly imaginable'. I doubt if you could get that level of cooperation from the public in the UK or anywhere else ever again.[/quote]

Put it this way: the public certainly wouldn't put up with it if they are watching the National Health Service crumble at the same time. The NHS was set up in the wake of WWII. It was what "everybody" felt was a reasonable reward for the common people who actually fought and won that war. Asking them to serve their country in the same way, when that country has abandoned them to the banksters and big business, and with the welfare state in ruins will lead only to a severe political crisis.

[RenewableCandy]

should not those in central London get more subsidised electricity for air conditioning ?

No.
If you can't stand the heat...

[AnOriginalIdea]

AnOriginalIdea, it's not the middle of the decade yet.

Of course it isn't. But some of those slides in the presentation were proclaiming some huge loss in capacity by 2010.

I am curious, how all did that work out? Did all that capacity disappear back in 2010, or did something else happen? Of course, we could follow a time honored tradition when prognostications go bad, proclaim yet another threat, and in the meantime collect a college degree, get a better job, buy a house, have a couple kids, and then one afternoon 5 years from now, do the same thing all over again...ad infinitum? Or at least until retirement. Not that anyone we know would ever have played this game...

[snow hope]

Indeed, that's the nature of the threat.

So when do we get to see the presentation then, compared to what actually happened during the past 7 years, and either the lack of supply, rolling blackouts and side effects of the threat, or none of the threat materializing, and an explanation as to why?

Anyone who has been around endless speculation on these topics, and the manufacturing of threats at the blink of an eye, could get a bit jaded on the next rounds of "threats", particularly if the actors involved haven't taken the time to learn the history of the threats made before which also never materialized, yet incorporate the exact same mechanisms to manufacture the newest version of "the threat".

Ahhh, another *anker rolls in .........

[adam2]

A number of off topic posts about the NHS and the funding thereof have been removed and placed in a new thread, please try to keep THIS thread on the topic of the forecast shortage of generating capacity.
The other thread may be found here.
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... 809#223809

[RenewableCandy]

To be fair, Matt Savvy was on Ch4 News in 2005 talking about possible power cuts that winter. I think it was because of inadequate gas storage. We then had a fairly mild winter so nothing transpired.

But power cuts aren't a "national" thing. Rural places have them frequently, they're just unusual in cities. I think they'll just become more frequent.

[adam2]

Power cuts are indeed much more common in rural areas, and most rural dwellers are hopefully at least partialy prepared for something that happens at least every few years and often more frequently.

Rota power cuts in urban areas would be interesting to say the least !
Very few people or companies are prepared.
Most people IME simply do not realise that if there is not enough power to go around, then it will be cut off entirely to different districts in rotation.

Most seem to think that exceptions should be made for the elderly, the vulnerable, the sick, hospitals, railway stations, police stations, food shops, and so on.
This is simply not possible, if the power is off, then off it is for EVERY consumer in the affected area, no matter how deserving they may be.

A lot of people dont realy understand that all the electricity for a house comes along one cable and that this is either on or off.
"I tried every light, not even one worked"
"they ought to at leave the light on the stairs on"
"they would not even let me use the heater in the babies room"

OTOH, I met someone who expressed suprise that the lights in a bus still worked in a power cut !

[RenewableCandy]

I think people are dimly aware that hospital lights don't (shouldn't!) go out in a power cut, but don't realise that's because the hospital has its own UPS, not because it has a special connection of some sort.

You don't hear much about how central London coped when they had to flick the switch for the entire area during the 1987 storm. Some people's own stories would be instructive.

[emordnilap]

Our leccy supply has been extremely stable since major overhauls earlier in the century.

However, just recently there have been many momentary cuts (two or three times a week), akin to a switch being thrown somewhere and the connection breaking for an instant. I suspect a dodgy component somewhere.