Coal

[lurker]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... aring.html




Now paying £7 for a 25kg bag will this make it increase no doubt

Anyone else still burn coal as there main heating source & how much do you pay?

[JohnB]

Australia accounts for almost two-thirds of the global coking coal trade

Resilience is such a wonderful thing. Shipping a bulky heavy product half way round the world to make another bulky heavy product that's shipped half way round the world, is a brilliant idea. Surely it can only work in a totally screwed up system, and can't last forever

[kenneal - lagger]

Australia accounts for almost two-thirds of the global coking coal trade

Resilience is such a wonderful thing. Shipping a bulky heavy product half way round the world to make another bulky heavy product that's shipped half way round the world, is a brilliant idea. Surely it can only work in a totally screwed up system, and can't last forever

It's been slowed up quite a bit recently by the flooding. Gaia getting her own back?

[PS_RalphW]

UK coal consumption has jumped this morning up over 2GW for the first time since the spring. I guess we are entering a 'winter fuel' algorithm with the start of November which pushes coal up the list of priorities for electricity production. We only have a few years and limited permitted operation hours before all coal is due for closure. So far this year, coal has generated less than 2% of electricity.

[adam2]

I know of a family in London who heat with coal derived smokeless fuel.
Two large houses made into one home with fifteen bedrooms (they foster loads of children, usually about a dozen)

They pay about £6 per 25 kilo bag, after discount for bulk buying.
They have a modern multifuel boiler for winter space heating and water heating.
This can burn logs, processed wood fuel, or smokeless coal. Maximum output is about 80KW.
A 20KW gas boiler is used in summer for heating hot water.

[Snail]

New coal mine in Cumbria looks set to open:
https://www.in-cumbria.com/news/1801235 ... -local-mp/

[PS_RalphW]

Coal was used for electricity today for the first time this summer. Wind power was low, a lot of generating plant was down for routine maintenance, I guess demand was high because of air conditioning in 35 degree heat, and the reduced thermal efficiency of the gas turbines in the hot, humid air, which is lower density and needs more compressing to maintain the mass throughput into the turbines.

All coal will be gone in 5 years. New nuclear will not be built by then.

We may need more gas plant to cover for the changing climate

[BritDownUnder]

Not related but many coal mines in the Hunter region of Australia are on shutdown right now with production supposedly halved. Officially this is due to Coronavirus and low prices. I suspect that this level of production may be lasting a bit longer than people are admitting to. Not entirely unrelated (I have been looking for a rural property in recent months) but I have noticed a lot of high-end houses going on the market in our town and surrounds recently. I think some people know something.

[Little John]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... aring.html




Now paying �7 for a 25kg bag will this make it increase no doubt

Anyone else still burn coal as there main heating source & how much do you pay?

Have a small stock of coal (couple of sacks) over winter along with a smallish stock of logs and an enormous stock of old fencing and roofing wood built up over the summer from my brother's roofing and landscaping business. We just use the open fire on a weekend for psychological comfort reasons as opposed to any financial concerns.

[kenneal - lagger]

I know of a family in London who heat with coal derived smokeless fuel.
Two large houses made into one home with fifteen bedrooms (they foster loads of children, usually about a dozen)

They pay about £6 per 25 kilo bag, after discount for bulk buying.
They have a modern multifuel boiler for winter space heating and water heating.
This can burn logs, processed wood fuel, or smokeless coal. Maximum output is about 80KW.
A 20KW gas boiler is used in summer for heating hot water.

Sounds like it must be quite a lucrative business if a bit carbon intensive.

[adam2]

New coal mine in Cumbria looks set to open:
https://www.in-cumbria.com/news/1801235 ... -local-mp/

Now approved.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55721919.

Perhaps surprisingly, I welcome this decision. I remain opposed to coal burning for electricity generation, wind, solar, and other renewables are viable and increasingly used. Gas as a last resort when renewables are not sufficient. Gas is less polluting than coal.
I remain opposed to coal burning for domestic heating unless there is a special reason to permit it, in existing homes.

However the coal from this mine is destined for coke manufacture, with this coke being used for iron and steel production. Iron and steel are vital to a modern economy, or even to a Victorian one.
I would prefer that coal for such unavoidable uses is produced in the UK, to higher environmental and safety standards then importing it from countries with questionable records.
Likewise I would prefer that the UK produces its own iron and steel, rather than relying on imports. There is no environmental gain in importing coal, or iron and steel, from overseas.

[kenneal - lagger]

If the same amount of coal is produced there is no difference to global warming, or perhaps only a very small one if there is more energy used in the production of the same amount of coal but from two different locations.

What we, as a country, should be doing is investing in new methods of steel production that don't use fossil fuel rather than hanging onto old ones. That has been one of our problems ever since WW2 of not investing in new technology until someone else sells us what we could have manufactured ourselves. Yes, we have led the way in many things but others, invented here, have gone abroad because the much vaunted City of London would rather play with useless bits of paper rather than solid investment.

[adam2]

In general, I agree, but in the specific case of iron and steel production I am not aware of any way to produce significant iron and steel without coke derived from coal. The coke is not simply a heat source, but a vital part of the basic chemical reaction whereby iron oxide is reduced to iron.

Charcoal from wood is a theoretical possibility, and was used centuries ago. I have read, but can not substantiate, that a thousand tons of trees were needed to make one ton of iron.

[kenneal - lagger]

Perhaps we should be looking for another chemical reaction to remove the oxygen from the iron or perhaps an electrical way of doing it. I have seen that there are a lot of companies who are electrically heating furnaces now and if that part of the smelting process can be taken away from coke that at least will lead to the CO2 produced being reduced.

[adam2]

Many furnaces can be heated with electricity, including those for recycling metals, for melting glass, for heat treating metal tools, and for producing pottery.
At present though coke is unavoidable for iron and steel production, as distinct from recycling which can be done in an electric arc furnace.