Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

Degasified coal? Bitumen? Will we have to turn to these at the cost of global warming?

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Mark
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

Post by Mark »

johnny wrote: 22 Sep 2022, 23:08 Well imagine that. Sounds like someone isn't confident in their ability to build windmills and solar panels in time for folks not freezing this winter, or going bankrupt. Well, it would be quite disturbing to some to freeze to death in the dark when the government could have done something about it.
Rubbish on so many fronts johnny/RGR...
Even if we go ahead today, we wouldn't get any significant gas from fracking for 10 years....
Wind turbines and solar panels can be installed much quicker, at a lower cost...
Insulation can be done even quicker and at an even lower cost....

Any fracked gas wouldn't belong to the UK, so it wouldn't reduce bills, it would only benefit the Gas Companies...
Fracked gas would also contribute to climate change - guess you're aware that we're in a Code Red emergency...
Fracking would also use and contaminate vast quantities of water and cause earth tremors...
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

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Mark wrote: 22 Sep 2022, 23:47
johnny wrote: 22 Sep 2022, 23:08 Well imagine that. Sounds like someone isn't confident in their ability to build windmills and solar panels in time for folks not freezing this winter, or going bankrupt. Well, it would be quite disturbing to some to freeze to death in the dark when the government could have done something about it.
Rubbish on so many fronts johnny/RGR...
Even if we go ahead today, we wouldn't get any significant gas from fracking for 10 years....
An interesting claim. The US did significant gas production in about 2 or 3. Within 10 we became the world's largest producer I believe. Any reason the UK is less capable when it comes to having good ol' fashion American oil field "get'er done" attitude?

And this boat the UK is in ONLY exists because of what your leaders decided was best in 2019 when they banned a completion technique. So the problem wouldn't be a problem if your government had decided then that security of supply was important, versus outsourcing your energy needs to unreliable others.
Mark wrote: Wind turbines and solar panels can be installed much quicker, at a lower cost...
Insulation can be done even quicker and at an even lower cost....
And of course, once the decision was made to take away domestic energy security using natural gas, your government ran out and secured all these things so that you wouldn't be...in the pickle you are in now. Oops....guess not. Better luck next "spot it a mile away and 3 years in advance" energy crisis?
Mark wrote: Any fracked gas wouldn't belong to the UK, so it wouldn't reduce bills, it would only benefit the Gas Companies...
It only wouldn't belong to the UK because your government wouldn't want to nationize it for the citizens? They certainly could if they wanted to. And of course it has to benefit the gas companies, the folks doing a nasty and hard job making sure you don't freeze in the dark don't work for nothing.
Mark wrote: Fracked gas would also contribute to climate change - guess you're aware that we're in a Code Red emergency...
I am aware. And I am also aware of what the atmospheric CO2 chart atop Mauna Loa says, every day, every month, every season, every year. Humans don't care. We just talk about it a bunch, and do little to nothing collectively to change the trajectory of the data on that chart. And guess what? Do you seriously think that Brits want to freeze in the dark to do their part in saving the climate? This winter? Because your politicians don't seem to think so.
Mark wrote: Fracking would also use and contaminate vast quantities of water and cause earth tremors...
Fracking requires fresh water, yes, and doesn't contaminate water unless someone is spilling frack fluid all over the place. A hint for the uninitiated in completion operations...you pump it downhole.....usually most of it flows back up...and then you recycle it or pump it into disposal wells. And it is those disposal wells that cause the earth tremors..... Don't take my word for it when real live experts have already figured it out.

So..I recommend careful injection rules are far more important for induced seismicity issues, now that the UK completion ban has been lifted.
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Mark
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

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Why fracking is not the answer to soaring UK gas prices
https://ukerc.ac.uk/news/why-fracking-i ... as-prices/

There's zero chance that a Tory government would nationise any fracked gas.
Even the nominally 'socialist' Labour Party, if elected, probably wouldn't consider it...
Unless things get very much tougher that is....

We don't need more gas supply....
WE NEED TO REDUCE GAS DEMAND.
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

Post by kenneal - lagger »

Mark wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 17:28 .................
We don't need more gas supply....
WE NEED TO REDUCE GAS DEMAND.
Couldn't agree more. We need to reduce the demand for everything and share more with the third world.
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

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Mark wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 17:28 There's zero chance that a Tory government would nationise any fracked gas.
Well that is indeed unfortunate. Is there a reasonable chance they would use domestic sources of supply to at least decrease the price paid by the citizens?
Mark wrote: We don't need more gas supply....
WE NEED TO REDUCE GAS DEMAND.
Of course. The future is Amish. Just not yet.
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Mark
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

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johnny wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 00:38
Mark wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 17:28 There's zero chance that a Tory government would nationise any fracked gas.
Well that is indeed unfortunate. Is there a reasonable chance they would use domestic sources of supply to at least decrease the price paid by the citizens?
Nope - zero chance of that as well....
The only 'benefit' would be a slight (unspecified) rebate if you live within a small (unspecified) distance of a fracking well....
Oh, and I guess some tax revenue, which would go into the general pot....
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Mark
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

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kenneal - lagger wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 19:42
Mark wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 17:28 .................
We don't need more gas supply....
WE NEED TO REDUCE GAS DEMAND.
Couldn't agree more. We need to reduce the demand for everything and share more with the third world.
Blimey Ken, are you sure that you're a Tory....?
You'll be singing The Red Flag next..... :lol:
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

Post by kenneal - lagger »

Mark wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 11:06 ...................
You'll be singing The Red Flag next..... :lol:
The working class can kiss there a...
I've got the foreman's job at last
Those out of work and on the dole
Can shove the red flag up........

That one you mean?

I am what i believe is called a One Nation Tory. I also believe in the circular economy and the requirement for everyone to have enough money to make the economy go round. I also believe in EROEI and Limits to Growth.

If we don't share the earth's resources those who don't have them will come here to get a share of them and we already import 50% of our food so we will have problems feeding ourselves in the future if we don't take steps to limit our population. You can probably add Pragmatic to the One Nation Tory!
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

Post by BritDownUnder »

johnny wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 00:38 Of course. The future is Amish. Just not yet.
Amish use a lot of diesel for things like pumping water and powering static equipment.

It's electricity they don't like.
G'Day cobber!
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

Post by johnny »

BritDownUnder wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 21:28
johnny wrote: 25 Sep 2022, 00:38 Of course. The future is Amish. Just not yet.
Amish use a lot of diesel for things like pumping water and powering static equipment.

It's electricity they don't like.
Oh, not the Amish I grew up around. If you wanted them to build your barn, they sure didn't show up in their own pickup truck. The deals they made when working for you was you provided the transport to and from if it was outside a reasonable range of their carriage.
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

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Rees-Mogg seeking to evade scrutiny of new fracking projects, email shows:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -email-hse
Ministers are actively examining ways to evade legal, environmental and public scrutiny of new oil and gas projects including fracking, the Guardian has learned, sparking a furious reaction from green groups and opposition parties.

Senior staff working on energy projects in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Beis) have been instructed to look into ideas raised by Jacob Rees-Mogg, the business secretary, to escape potential judicial review of policies or public consultation.

An email to officials, seen by the Guardian, sets out that Rees-Mogg, a keen advocate of fracking, had noted that parliamentary legislation is not subject to judicial review, and could potentially be used to speed along new projects.
The natural outcome of Brexit and the Tories.....
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Mark
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

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Fracking banned again.....
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

Post by johnny »

Mark wrote: 26 Oct 2022, 15:31 Fracking banned again.....
Has it already been reversed? I hadn't noticed the news story.
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

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"Fracking banned again" was reported on the 18-00 TV news as being a policy of the new PM. I agree with the ban. Any gas produced from UK fracking would be sold at the prevailing free market price and would not be expected to significantly reduce those prices.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
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Re: Why We Can’t Frack Ourselves Out of an Energy Crisis*

Post by johnny »

adam2 wrote: 26 Oct 2022, 18:11 "Fracking banned again" was reported on the 18-00 TV news as being a policy of the new PM. I agree with the ban.
Gas exporters of the world like your perspective. It isn't as though they want a large conveniently located source of supply getting in their way of fleecing the folks who's government will happily pay top dollar because they agree with you.
adam2 wrote: Any gas produced from UK fracking would be sold at the prevailing free market price and would not be expected to significantly reduce those prices.
Don't you just love how the natural gas exporters can make a mint in either the scenario I outlined above, or yours because that same government won't drill to the benefit of their citizens? I mean, for corporations it is like your government handing them the keys to the soveign mint and just letting them print up all the money they want in either case. A win-win! Not for you as the citizen in general or your government failing to lead, but for the corporations with a rock solid reliable market being handed to them on a silver platter. It will be interesting to watch all this unfold this winter. Hopefully global warming will mitigate cold weather this winter? Sort of like a silver lining for the UK in the global warming disaster and all that.
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