Trompe.....

[biffvernon]

Oh well, Bill's lecture was jolly entertaining anyway.

[vtsnowedin]

Oh well, Bill's lecture was jolly entertaining anyway.

He is rather funny. He thinks people in Kentucky drink gin.His other error is thinking the water will rise back up on it's own to the level it was dropped from. Basic hydraulics will tell you that is not going to happen without restricting the rate of fall of the input water through the trumpe to zero. I don't know about his claim of compressed air cars going 300 miles on two cubic feet of air compressed to 1000 psi. They could certainly go some distance and that would be controlled by the weight of the loaded car and the efficiency of the compressed air driven drive line. I've watched air driven rock drills move themselves and their compressor in tow over work sites for years so motion is certainly possible. It is just a question of how much. I wonder how much a filling station would charge you for two cubic feet of air compressed to 1000 psi?

[vtsnowedin]

A goggle search on air powered cars shows nothing promising. Also looking at some of the related You tube videos on trumps show some idiots that clearly don't know what they are talking about. You have to wonder about what institution of higher learning charged students for the privilege of attending these lectures and conferred degrees for successful completion of the course.

[peaceful_life]

A goggle search on air powered cars shows nothing promising. Also looking at some of the related You tube videos on trumps show some idiots that clearly don't know what they are talking about. You have to wonder about what institution of higher learning charged students for the privilege of attending these lectures and conferred degrees for successful completion of the course.

It's 'Trompe'.


http://www.aircaraccess.com/history.htm

'The term "air engine" disappeared from engineering textbooks between 1931 when William Lawrence Saunders died, and the end of the second world war. Gas engines had been perfected, the power of the oil industry was established, and gas was cheap. After Saunders' sudden death while he was on vacation, a new CEO of Ingersoll-Rand was chosen who was paranoid, secretive, wouldn't allow himself to be photographed, and turned in his annual financial report on a single sheet of paper folded in half. With certain key phrases and concepts no longer mentioned in textbooks, interest in air cars dwindled. Ingersoll-Rand's official publication as the largest compressed air corporation in the world, Compressed Air magazine, grew fashionably aloof from compressed air and almost never mentioned air cars. The oil glut was in full swing; nothing as simple as a better idea was going to stop that'

[peaceful_life]

Oh well, Bill's lecture was jolly entertaining anyway.

He is rather funny. He thinks people in Kentucky drink gin.His other error is thinking the water will rise back up on it's own to the level it was dropped from. Basic hydraulics will tell you that is not going to happen without restricting the rate of fall of the input water through the trumpe to zero. I don't know about his claim of compressed air cars going 300 miles on two cubic feet of air compressed to 1000 psi. They could certainly go some distance and that would be controlled by the weight of the loaded car and the efficiency of the compressed air driven drive line. I've watched air driven rock drills move themselves and their compressor in tow over work sites for years so motion is certainly possible. It is just a question of how much. I wonder how much a filling station would charge you for two cubic feet of air compressed to 1000 psi?

Interestingly.......you'll find a fair few university studies of the 'Trompe' and similar online.

[emordnilap]

'Bill Mollison explains what a trompe is and how compressed air can provide limitless amounts of clean energy using technology we have had for hundreds of years'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9NqqDL6bkk


Bill does ramble with the figures from time to time, but...the principal is sound enough.
The Trompe is well enough known in permaculture circles, I question why I've read nothing about it on forums such as this, or indeed heard 'Green' folk tout it's potential?

Anyway...the video is good for the craic of Bills style if nothing else.

"a bleddy gryte freezah"

What an amazing concept. It can't work because it's too cheap.

[PS_RalphW]

technology demo of a compressed air hybrid car.

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/citroen-con ... r-118-mpg/

Claims a weight advantage over a battery electric hybrid, presumably the
high pressure cylinder scales better.

Could easily be made plug in for compressed air only range.

[vtsnowedin]

What an amazing concept. It can't work because it's too cheap.

Actually it works but it is cheap only where you have a good hydro site where you can let water fall a hundred feet or more. Unfortunately there are very few sites that meet that requirement. If your trompe was 100 feet high it would yield air compressed to 43 psi. If you had plenty of water you could run a secondary compressor powered by either some of the compressed air or the tail water turning a Pelton wheel to step up the pressure to what ever was needed.
Once you stop using free falling water to do the work and replace it with electric or ICE driven pumps you are just indulging in energy conversions and storage which may be useful but certainly not free energy or necessarily cheaper then straight ICE. drive trains.

[BritDownUnder]

Sounds an interesting thing if a little inefficient. Serious doomers may want an alternative to an emergency electrical system that is resistant to EMP and compressed air may fit the bill but with a lack of suitable hydro sites it may be hard to implement. Maybe a hydro-powered air compressor is more appropriate.

[woodburner]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... 17mpg.html

[vtsnowedin]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... 17mpg.html

This diserves it's own thread as it has nothing to do with last years trompe dicussion beyond that they are using compressed air.
A very interesting and perhaps practical way to get around the waste of fuel sitting in congested city traffic. Not free energy of course just a more efficent use of the energy in the gasoline.
A test crash where the high pressure storage tank is ruptured would be an interesting video.

[emordnilap]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... 17mpg.html

Use helium and and the idea could take off.

[vtsnowedin]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... 17mpg.html

Use helium and and the idea could take off.

The hydrogen concept flamed out.

[adam2]

This technology and the alleged advantages thereof was discussed elsewhere recently. I have pointed those interested to this thread.

A Trompe undoubtedly works, but it is not a new idea, neither is it particularly efficient. The device produces low pressure compressed air and is particularly applicable to blowing of forges and furnaces. Also to blow bubbles through water as part of sewage treatment or fish farming installations.

For most other applications, electric power from a modern water turbine or a traditional water wheel is more applicable. Electric power has the great advantage that it may be used for so many purposes, including illumination at night and powering machines during the day.
A water wheel can provide direct mechanical drive to machines via line shafting, but this involves considerable costs, complications, losses, and risks. It finds little favour these days.
Line shafting was popular back in days of water wheels, and then steam engines, but generally went out of use when electricity became available.

In the UK, line shafting generally "went out with the war" though a handful of installations remained in use into the 1960s.

[adam2]

A variation of the trompe is the is the Sprengel mercury vacuum pump.
These are still used today to produce a high vacuum for prototype, test, or experimental purposes. They contain no moving parts and can be home constructed.

A large volume of expensive and rather toxic mercury is required, this can however be reused indefinitely. The entire equipment should be placed over a large plastic box to catch any spilled mercury in order that it can be reused.

I know of someone who has several such pumps, they repair old and valuable radio valves and light bulbs,and use a mercury pump to recreate the high vacuum.