Self Sufficiency - A Test Case

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 26 Nov 2009, 06:30

The Sun - 26/11/09

MARK BOYLE has absolutely no money worries - because he has absolutely no money.

And there's no need to feel sorry for him, it's all part of his seemingly bonkers plan to live totally cash-free for a YEAR.

Last November, as the rest of us were tightening our belts in the emerging recession, Mark began taking thriftiness to the extreme.

He cut up his debit card, closed his bank account and ditched his wallet.

And a year on, he says he has never been happier.

Article continues ...

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 26 Nov 2009, 16:27

This is NOT self sufficiency.

He is scavenging the system.

If the system goes, then there will be nothing to scavenge from.

Sorry, no cigar.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 26 Nov 2009, 16:45

fifthcolumn wrote:This is NOT self sufficiency.

He is scavenging the system.

If the system goes, then there will be nothing to scavenge from.

Sorry, no cigar.

There are the vegetables we grow on the farm. And one of my friends is very knowledgeable in foraging and has shown me how to find food for free.

"There's loads of stuff you can eat if you know what to look for - mushrooms, berries.

Scavenging the system? Not entirely.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 26 Nov 2009, 18:05

The million pound bonus banker is scavenging the system too, but in a bigger way.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 26 Nov 2009, 20:13

Aurora wrote: Scavenging the system? Not entirely.

The title post says: self sufficiency a test case.

Whether he's picking up past-the-sell-by-date apples from the skip behind Tesco's or whether he's picking wild mushrooms in both examples it's NOT a test case for self sufficiency.

The population is so large that any attempts by a significant fraction to "live off the land" are doomed to failure.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 26 Nov 2009, 20:14

biffvernon wrote:The million pound bonus banker is scavenging the system too, but in a bigger way.

Correct. And in both cases the system needs to keep functioning to feed them.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 26 Nov 2009, 22:07

The problem anyone has is even if they own land they dont really own it as they have to pay to live on it, so their swept into the money system .

hes doing something hes most likely living very cheap, he could do what thoreau did which wasnt self sufficiency although it pretty much was in food .
really instead of reading gandi he should be reading walden which inspired gandi .

thoreau used to work at paid work as a labourer for 3 weeks a year and that kept him for the year, apart from that he grew food and walked about .

its possible for many more people to make their lives more simple get rid of tv, get rid of telephone or computers, cook on scrap wood , I lived for three years in a 2 man ridge tent and I was more happy than I am now it a 4 bedroom house thats why im looking to let the damn place and go and live out of a rucksack again .

that caravan looks mighty fancy I could live in somewhere like that for rest of my life and be perfectly happy

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 26 Nov 2009, 22:47

jonny2mad wrote: its possible for many more people to

Define "many".

In terms of percentages I doubt you're talking about "many".

I bet even a hundred thousand people trying to live like that would quickly deplete the easy pickings.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 26 Nov 2009, 23:47

well the whole population cant live like this guy, but more than a hundred thousand could live a much more simple life no tv no telephone no electric its possible to do, more a hundred thousand could grow most of their own food .

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 27 Nov 2009, 00:15

jonny2mad wrote:well the whole population cant live like this guy, but more than a hundred thousand could live a much more simple life no tv no telephone no electric its possible to do, more a hundred thousand could grow most of their own food .

OK I'm nitpicking a bit.

Of course many could cut back and of course maybe even a couple of million could grow most of their own food.

The point I'm trying to make is that "living off the land" only works when there's a very high land/people ratio.

e.g. I'm fairly sure most of the population here could live off the land during the summer time, but even here it's doubtful if tens of millions could live off the land.

Unfortunately, it's been several millenia since it was feasible for the majority of the population to be able to live off the land.

We need to find another way.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 27 Nov 2009, 09:01

I covered this in the web story I wrote for World Without Oil website in 2008.

The cities were abandoned to their fate whilst the authorities and others set up defended areas in the countryside.

Feeling lucky?

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 27 Nov 2009, 13:09

well fifthcolumn I don't see much action or possibility in finding another way we are heading for dieoff could happen fast could happen slow I think fast.
that doesn't mean I think dieoffs going to happen next week I have no idea when , but when things start to fall I think they will go fast

if this fellow was armed had storage for food he grew and gardened he should be ok
ideally he would need a water source and a filter and thats about it of course it would depend on where he was living .
a bomb shelter would be handy

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 27 Nov 2009, 20:05

That guy living in his caravan with his solar powered laptop is not part of the problem or the solution. He is simply a one-off.

He leeches off the society around him ... what will happen when he needs, say, an appendectomy?

Will trusty Kate grab a rusty knife and operate on the crusty?

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 27 Nov 2009, 21:49

Vortex wrote:I covered this in the web story I wrote for World Without Oil website in 2008.

The cities were abandoned to their fate whilst the authorities and others set up defended areas in the countryside.

It's going to be very hard to cordon off the prairies. Here you don't need roads to get out of the city.

No to mention the availability of items like this:

Kentucky Fried Panda · Post by **Kentucky Fried Panda** » 01 Dec 2009, 14:46

that uzi isn't loaded...