Yearning and Longing

DamianB · Post by **DamianB** » 25 Sep 2005, 23:07

A while back it was also suggested that there was a get together at Paul's new place. He'd probably appreciate some help

http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=269

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 25 Sep 2005, 23:52

Just a shame Cornwall is further away from London than Scotland

At least it feels like it whenever I go down that way.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 11 Oct 2005, 18:47

The Isle of Mull was ace. The whole island runs on hydroelectric power, and they grow their own food and trees for building materials and fuel.

There are loads of derelict buildings there from a couple of hundred years ago. If I ever make any money from the band I'm in, I might buy one and do it up to live there! It certainly would be a great place to live post-peak . . .

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 24 Oct 2005, 16:06

Andy,

This might be of interest to you.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 25 Oct 2005, 14:02

Looks great - just off the South coast of Mull, too. I would recommend it to anyone. We were only on Mull for a few days, but it puts you in a completely different 'headspace' . . .

thorgal · Post by **thorgal** » 25 Oct 2005, 22:33

folks,

life after peak oil does not necessarily mean going back to stoneage. For one thing, although we could find ourselves drowned in a huge pile of useless techno-gadgets, you underestimate our ability to recycle things. It's amazing what one can do with a TV set, apart from watching TV. A lot of things will turn out useful, even though they are not powered anymore.

The second thing is that we did not really leave "stoneage", we are still using the same principles of living : we burn things to get warm or to get moving, we build shelters to isolate ourselves from the harsh outdoor conditions, we still need to eat to sustain ourselves, etc, etc. These things have not evolved at all. What we mainly did is to improve the efficiency of our basic actions. We perfectioned the way we fulfill our basic needs, that's it.

I would have preferred some different kind of changes. Considering that humankind has been around for quite some time now, it's amazing to see how much we lacked true imagination. For example, we never found a way to understand one another fully, we never found a way to free ourselves from our environment, we don't even have a common language all over the world, we still use these stupid small boxes that spit smoky pollutants to move around (car is just an improvement of an old idea, the car concept itself has not changed since its first design, namely 3 or 4 wheeled box put in motion by an engine). Where is teleportation ? where is direct mind to mind communication ? where is the understanding of life and death ? etc, etc.

I tend to think that the technological improvements are just an illusion of progress, for we still remain what we are : an animal bound to its environment, interacting with it (whether positively or not) and returning to it body and soul at death time.

So, life after peak oil will be the same in its essence, just less comfortable for some people. No big deal in fact ... all the post peak predictions about human kind's fate, whether gloomy or not, will only turn to be what human kind has been experiencing so far : life and death cycle. We just need to accept that the materialistic progress we experienced was just an euphoric moment that made us believe we truly improved or changed ourselves.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 26 Oct 2005, 10:16

Wise words . . .

I personally believe that we as a species are undergoing a big step forward in evolution, spiritually if you like. We are learning that in order to survive as a technological species, we must live in harmony with nature.

I think that we have progressed - with our medicine, learning and understanding of our condition. Our next test is to keep the best of that progress, but in harmony with the nature from which we came.

For me, this means using naturally-occurring renewable energy as opposed to finite fossil fuels, growing my own food, and generally taking responsibility for own existence on planet Earth. It's a humble undertaking, but I think that acknowledging to ourselves that we cannot live outside of nature is a very humbling prospect. The flip side of the coin is that if we can live with nature, we will have access to infinite power and energy to survive and evolve as a species - the only condition being that we live within nature's boundaries.

Just my two-penn'orth!

peaky · Post by **peaky** » 28 Oct 2005, 14:10

Andy Hunt wrote:I personally believe that we as a species are undergoing a big step forward in evolution, spiritually if you like. We are learning that in order to survive as a technological species, we must live in harmony with nature.

I agree with that and thorgal's points. It seems to me that at the moment we're (not us PeakNiks of course

) like a load of unruly teenagers saying "I want it. I want more of it. And I want it all right now. And I'm entitled to it. And if I can't have it I'm going to get angry/depressed/violent/etc". It seems to me that we're being called by Gaia to grow up as a species and enter maturity and put our intelligence, wisdom and passion to good use.

Or else we're stuffed

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 28 Oct 2005, 14:57

Genetic evolution is not about learning.

I agree that as a society some may be learning (although I think the number learning is less that the population increase).

I also think we have a remarkable ability to forget.

Also evolution is not necessarily about progress, definitely not always about intellectual progress.

DamianB · Post by **DamianB** » 28 Oct 2005, 16:02

Right on Andy!

I think this is especially pertinant in the question of space travel!

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 28 Oct 2005, 17:30

In the book "Global Trends 2005" the idea was put forward that people are moving from buying products to buying experiences; moving away from materialism is a trend that has been growing for a few years now.

isenhand · Post by **isenhand** » 29 Oct 2005, 13:27

Andy Hunt wrote:
I personally believe that we as a species are undergoing a big step forward in evolution, spiritually if you like. We are learning that in order to survive as a technological species, we must live in harmony with nature.

A small part of us humans are learning to take a holistic view of things, not just understanding the parts but understanding the whole as well. At the risk of sounding conceited, there is still a large part of the human race who just don?t get the whole yet.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 01 Nov 2005, 15:01

I think this is especially pertinant in the question of space travel!

I think that the first step to 'terraforming' other plantets is to 'terraform' our own first!

Once we know about climate control, and we have learned how to work with nature instead of destroying it, we will know how to nurture our planet so that it sustains us with maximum variety and diversity. Then we will be able to transfer that know-how to other worlds. I reckon it's going to take us another couple of millennia though - we've got some serious problems to get through before then!

Genetic evolution is not about learning.

No? What's the genetic difference between Homo Erectus and Homo Sapiens? Homo Sapiens means 'wise man'. Evolution isn't about learning?

Our situation is changing, we must either change with it or die. That means we have to use every means at our disposal - intellectual, physical, whatever. We must learn to live with nature and by nature, or we will be forced to learn that nature can quite happily live without us.

"Survival of the fittest", as Darwin had it. Time to get in the wood stoves and solar panels. Time to survive!

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 01 Nov 2005, 15:07

OK, that sentence didn't come out correctly.

Informational knowledge can be passed down from generation to generation but each has to learn it.

The genetic capacity to learn, not the knowledge, is passed down without the need to learn and is hence part of genetic evolution.

Instinctive behaviour can also be passed down genetically and is not learnt.

What was being discussed was leart knowledge that is not going to become instinctive behaviour and hence cannot be classified as genetic evolution.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 01 Nov 2005, 15:27

How about the learnt knowledge that we must rely on our instinctive knowledge in order to survive?

It seems to me that nature is about to teach us a lesson, and that once (some of) we have learned that lesson, it will change our character as a species - those of us who are left. It will remain in our collective memory that once we thought we were gods, but we fell, and that we only survived by bowing down and worshipping nature, our creator, once more - and forever. But I think we will be forgiven, and we will survive.

Surely the reason why homo sapiens have larger brains than our predecessors is that our learnt knowledge became instinctive knowledge over the millennia, and we have larger brains to store that instinctive information? Each one of us carries the 'collective consciousness' within our own mind. Witness how easily a child can master a computer, when such a thing was not even conceived of when its grandparents were born.

Our base fear of the dark comes from the time we discovered how to control fire, and all our enemies were 'out there' in the dark beyond the communal fire. That started out as learnt knowledge, but over the millennia has become instinctive knowledge, linked to survival.

I think that humanity is about to 'grow up' as a species, as Peaky says. And when we have shown that we can be trusted with our own planet, maybe we will be allowed to colonise others . . .

PowerSwitch

Yearning and Longing

stoneage or not stoneage ?