Yearning and Longing

beev · Post by **beev** » 09 Sep 2005, 13:25

Bandidoz wrote:I would expect that it could be possible, but it may eventually be a 14.4k-modem type of experience. Less energy = less bandwidth.

Not if you bypass the phone lines. After all, who wants to depend on BT? Thank f*ck for wireless and the network principle!

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 09 Sep 2005, 14:19

I didn't mean we'd go back to using 14.4k modems. Just those kinds of speeds.

EmptyBee · Post by **EmptyBee** » 09 Sep 2005, 14:24

Tess wrote: Good god... where on earth is that?!

Using my detective skills (right click image> properties) I deduce that it's Mt. Hood in Oregon.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mthood/

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 09 Sep 2005, 15:03

EmptyBee wrote:Using my detective skills (right click image> properties) I deduce that it's Mt. Hood in Oregon.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mthood/

I want to know where the photo was taken - and then I want to go there! And what site did the photo come from, and are there any bigger ones?

fishertrop · Post by **fishertrop** » 09 Sep 2005, 15:45

Tess, the good news is that the web is full of such photos

I only recently started to appreciate that kind of thing and now often idly google for such (usually at work, where you need inspriation the most, as you know...).

The caption for that picture reads simply "Mt Hood at Trillium Lake", and you can buy it as a print - like most sites that make such great photos available on the web, they do so to generate sales (and no bad thing).

That site is http://www.strengthinperspective.com and has some truely great images (I have plugged their site now so they ought not to mind me linking a few photos here!)

From there, I also liked:

and

Seperately, I also found this one purely at random via google:

...which is also my kinda thing.

Everyone, soak up the views and relax, ahhhhh....

EmptyBee · Post by **EmptyBee** » 09 Sep 2005, 17:06

Tess wrote: I want to know where the photo was taken - and then I want to go there!

Map of the area:

Mapquest link

You can zoom out and so on but I couldn't find Trillium lake exactly. Must be too small.

Directions to Trillium Lake:

http://activities.wildernet.com/pages/a ... IO*54364cg

Yes I was bored

isenhand · Post by **isenhand** » 09 Sep 2005, 17:56

very nice pics .... hhmmm ... I wonder if I could make money selling mine

isenhand · Post by **isenhand** » 09 Sep 2005, 17:59

What do you think, Tess? Is it important that humanity remains a technological species, united by a global communications system? If not, then what progress have we really made as a species? What lessons have we learned?

I think so, we shold use our brains to make things and make life better for ourselves but we should also balance this with nature and not destroy her.

Produce what we need and have more time to be human

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 13 Sep 2005, 15:48

I do not like the way you have identified 'progress' with technology. This leaves me cold. I do not accept that we need technology to make 'progress' as a species. Progress for me is the ability to live with mercy and compassion, and without war or criminality. I would gladly give up all technology for that.

It was yourself who identified 'progress' with technology, Tess!

I identified 'progress' with a global communications network and a unified human consciousness. The internet is the tool to achieve this, not 'progress' in itself. It's the global consciousness that I think is worth keeping, not the technology for its own sake! The internet is such a good tool for swapping information and survival techniques. Without it, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, after all!

I believe in things like education and medicine as 'progress', which use technology to a lesser or greater degree. And of course, as you say, compassion, co-operation and existence in harmony with nature, the last of which has to be an absolute necessity for survival - all other things are secondary.

Sometimes of course, 'progress' can mean moving away from technology - such as a change to organic farming techniques. But I do think that technology can be a force for the good. Look at the bicycle, for an example!

I think realistically that humanity will always be a technological species, and that the key to our future is the intelligent use of that technology to enable us to live in harmony with nature. For example, a cast iron wood-burning stove is a technology which allows us to keep warm efficiently whilst only using renewable natural resources as fuel. I believe that we are supposed to use our technological expertise for sustainable living.

Of course, I could be completely wrong! But it seems to ring true to me.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 13 Sep 2005, 17:58

Andy Hunt wrote:It was yourself who identified 'progress' with technology, Tess!

You said,

Andy Hunt wrote:"Is it important that humanity remains a technological species, united by a global communications system? If not, then what progress have we really made as a species?"

Was I wrong to take from this that you're implying that if we're not a technological species then we've made no progress?

This is the only statement I disagree with. I prefer to identify progress with spirituality, as you noted. Perhaps it is only a disagreement of concepts; if we disregard the ever-confusing words perhaps we really feel the same way.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 13 Sep 2005, 18:10

Andy Hunt wrote:But I do think that technology can be a force for the good. Look at the bicycle, for an example!

Agree absolutely. I just didn't agree with the implication that without technology there's no 'progress'.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 13 Sep 2005, 18:11

Hi Tess - sorry about any confusions. I hope that we are friends!

I agree with you that some people equate technology with progress - I am not one. The blind worship of technology for its own sake is truly dangerous. But by the same token, the blind rejection of technology as a potential solution to a problem I find equally myopic and dangerous.

Even if we stopped producing computers tomorrow, I reckon there would be enough of them around to last for maybe even hundreds of years, if looked after properly. I see no reason why we can't maintain some basic global communications, and surely the Internet is one of the best and most accessible ways.

Its amazing . . . just days ago I was reading about fuel protests across the world. Now we have them beginning right here in the UK tomorrow morning. I have a feeling though, that these are only going to be the start. The ones in 2000 went away . . . I don't think that this week's protests will ever really go away.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 13 Sep 2005, 18:21

Hi Tess, I think we are in agreement - I suppose I am just talking about the spiritually enlightened use of technology. For me, spiritually enlightened energy is simply renewable energy - the eternal energy provided to us by nature.

I think the confusion came from my statement about progress because what I actually meant was that if we had used up all these resources developing all this amazing technology, and then we failed to use that technology in a spiritually enlightened way, then we would have made no progress. The 'progress' was from a spiritual perspective rather than a technical one. By 'spiritual', I mean a global consciousness, so that every person on the Earth realises that he or she is an equal part of the human race as a whole, and treats his or her neighbour accordingly. That's why I think a global communications network is a good thing - it encourages a global awareness, and spiritual enlightenment for the species.

This is why I think that it is possible for us to be a technological species, and also live in harmony with nature. We came from nature, and I think that we can exist with nature - as long as we design and build our technology from a spiritually enlightened perspective.

It's a great challenge - maybe even a third 'Industrial Revolution' for us. It's terrifying really, but exciting too. Amazing to see the developments day-by-day!

isenhand · Post by **isenhand** » 14 Sep 2005, 06:25

<<This is why I think that it is possible for us to be a technological species, and also live in harmony with nature. We came from nature, and I think that we can exist with nature - as long as we design and build our technology from a spiritually enlightened perspective.>>

Yippii!!!

Nice to see some one has got the idea of technocracy

This is what it is all about! Applying our intelligence! Personally, I would use the term ?balance? as in balancing technology with nature but from what I have been learning from people on the forum ?build our technology from a spiritually enlightened perspective? says what I mean in a different way. Probably in a way that means something more to people than the terms I use.

<< Sometimes of course, 'progress' can mean moving away from technology - such as a change to organic farming techniques.>>

Hmm ? I wouldn?t agree with that as such. ?Organic farming techniques? is a technology to me it just a technology that is more in balance with nature than our current farming ?lets make the rich get richer and s*d the earth? techniques. The same would go for permaculture. Perhaps I can phrase it and say that they are a more ?spiritually enlightened? technologies?

<< I identified 'progress' with a global communications network and a unified human consciousness.>>

Can I add ?an increased understanding of ourselves and the universe we live in? or is that covered in ?human consciousness?? Either way, I would agree, spot on.

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 14 Sep 2005, 22:31

isenhand wrote:<<This is why I think that it is possible for us to be a technological species, and also live in harmony with nature. We came from nature, and I think that we can exist with nature - as long as we design and build our technology from a spiritually enlightened perspective.>>

Well Ive looked long and hard but I dont seem to have a 'spiritual dimension'... nothing inside answering to that description. I seem to be an atheist materialist... would ecologically enlightened perspective do you? I can cope with that.

Personally my idea of progress is antibiotics and Swiss chocolate. I wouldnt be here talking to you if it wasnt for the first , and I'm addicted to the second.