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I’ve been busy this year and have had little time to increase my poultry flock. That said, a young hen did go broody and instead of the usual battle of wills, I let her sit on 9 eggs. Only 2 hatched, and after many weeks of trying to convince myself that they were female, I had to give in and admit that they were both males. So on Sunday morning I dispatched the poor unsuspecting birds and with the help of my daughters boy friend plucked and prepared them for the freezer.

So:
Time fussing around a broody hen, ages
1 small bag chick crumbs, £4
As all my coops were in use, build new coop and run, which included driving to get an off-cut of roofing felt, luckily free, half a day.
Take them over to my niece to be looked after while we went on holiday, requiring 2 journeys each way, 20 miles.
All the corn and layers pellets they consumed when they joined the rest of the pack, pounds of it.
And finally this Sunday. Killing, heating water for scalding, plucking, drawing, bagging and cleaning up, too long.
All for 7 lb of white meat! They better taste wonderful.

the mad cyclist wrote:I’ve been busy this year and have had little time to increase my poultry flock. That said, a young hen did go broody and instead of the usual battle of wills, I let her sit on 9 eggs. Only 2 hatched, and after many weeks of trying to convince myself that they were female, I had to give in and admit that they were both males. So on Sunday morning I dispatched the poor unsuspecting birds and with the help of my daughters boy friend plucked and prepared them for the freezer.

So:
Time fussing around a broody hen, ages
1 small bag chick crumbs, £4
As all my coops were in use, build new coop and run, which included driving to get an off-cut of roofing felt, luckily free, half a day.
Take them over to my niece to be looked after while we went on holiday, requiring 2 journeys each way, 20 miles.
All the corn and layers pellets they consumed when they joined the rest of the pack, pounds of it.
And finally this Sunday. Killing, heating water for scalding, plucking, drawing, bagging and cleaning up, too long.
All for 7 lb of white meat! They better taste wonderful.

The thing you have described is a problem for all of us. On the one hand, it still make no immediate economic sense to do something like raise chicken to eat when they can be had so cheaply in the supermarkets, at least in terms of basic nutrition, if not in terms of taste. However, there will come a point when it does make sense. When that point arrives is the difficult bit to predict. Until then, for most people, buying from the supermarket is going to continue to make more sense than anything else.

We have just gone through a similar procedure. 6 fertilised 'black silkie' bantum eggs through the post, weeks under a broody hen managed to hatch 2. We needed to separate the other hens to stop them attacking the chicks. One fell out the nest and died of cold anyway. 4 months later and we cannot hide the fact that we have a pure white silkie cockeral.

Time to pass it on to our 'friendly chicken farmer' in the country. Our nine year-olds will not be happy.

Steve's point is one that I console myself with on the allotment. It makes little economic sense to piss around on the plot, and if I start adding up the cost of inputs (and I don't spend much) then it rapidly becomes an unwinnable argument. However I console/convince myself that I am learning new skills, getting a head start on the rest of the population, teaching my boy where food comes from, and meeting like-minded folk. Plus, everyone needs a hobby and at least it's not ****ing golf!

Our allotment (30x8m with polytunnel) costs £32 a year, we spend maybe another £20 on seeds/consumables and we mitigate £2-300 of food purchase from it.

clv101 wrote:Our allotment (30x8m with polytunnel) costs £32 a year, we spend maybe another £20 on seeds/consumables and we mitigate £2-300 of food purchase from it.

£32 plus £20 equals £52. If we split the difference between £200 and £300 to £250, then £250 minus £52 equals £198.

The national minimum wage is £6.19 per hour. Assuming roughly 25% tax and insurance combined, this comes to £4.64 per hour. £198 divided by £4.64 equals 42 hours. If we divide 42 hours by 52 weeks, this comes to approximately 48 minutes per week.

Do you and/or your allotment co-workers spend more or less than 48 minutes per week in total on your allotment in order to produce your annual saving in food expenditure of £198?

I should say, the above analysis and consequent question do not include the start-up cost of your poly-tunnel.

Surely it does come down to whether a)you enjoy it and b)whether you are learning new, important skills.

The fact is that almost all hobbies cost money and learning new skills does too, so if you can learn a new skill and have fun and get fruit and veg at the end of it, then even from a purely financial perspective, you are quids in.

nexus wrote:Surely it does come down to whether a)you enjoy it and b)whether you are learning, new important skills.

The fact is that almost all hobbies cost money and learning new skills does too, so if you can learn a new skill and have fun and get fruit and veg at the end of it, then even from a purely financial perspective, you are quids in.

Of course it comes down to whether or not you enjoy it. It may also come down to a judgement about how one feels these skills may be critically useful and/or how the economic variables may change at some indeterminate point in the future. However, what it does not come down to is immediate economics.

From a purely financial perspective, assuming you have the alternative of working for the minimum wage, you are demonstrably not quids in, as a matter of economic fact, at least not on the scale of a standard allotment.

stevecook172001 wrote:However, what it does not come down to is immediate economics.

Very true. Indeed, growing veggies for a living is tough going - and probably rarely profitable when externalities are taken into account.

emordnilap wrote:

stevecook172001 wrote:However, what it does not come down to is immediate economics.

Very true. Indeed, growing veggies for a living is tough going - and probably rarely profitable when externalities are taken into account.

Yep.

The numbers will assuredly change over time with regards to those externalities. We're just not there yet, nor anywhere near.

For the vast majority of working people who are already putting in a large number of hours on the back of two earners in one household just to keep their heads afloat and who have little enough spare time as it is to rest, putting in an extra hour's overtime per week beats spending several hours per week on an allotment.

I find the above economic reality deeply depressing. But it is what it is.

Until we reach the even more depressing economic reality of a loaf of bread at five quid each and nobody able to get job for love nor money, that's the way it's going to stay for the majority of landless urban peasants. As I said, it's coming. We're just not there yet.

You could look at it from a different angle. If food growing is done outside normal work hours, what activities does it replace? Gaining £200 worth of food may also save thousands in drinking, smoking, travelling, home entertainment, gadgets etc.

JohnB wrote:You could look at it from a different angle. If food growing is done outside normal work hours, what activities does it replace? Gaining £200 worth of food may also save thousands in drinking, smoking, travelling, home entertainment, gadgets etc.

The direct economic comparison I made was with working for the minimum wage. On the basis of that comparison, working for the minimum wage for a comparable period of time one might typically spend on an allotment wins hands down.

How one chooses to spend one's discretionary income in pursuit of a particular leisure activity as opposed to another is an entirely different matter. If, however, you are making the separate point that it is cheaper to work an allotment than go down the pub as a leisure activity, then of course you may be right. By that logic, though, it is cheaper to read book or go for a run.

Basically, it is an erroneous strategy, whichever way you look at it, to try and justify growing veg on an allotment in terms of economics. At least, not unless you are penniless and can't get a job.

There are lots of other justifications of course. Economics just isn't one of them.

If anybody is interested, I built the new coop using plans found in Incubating and Brooding Chickens: www.keepingchickensnewsletter.com/BroodingChicks2.pdf

It’s a simple but very practical design.

This picture shows mine, before front netting and roofing felt.

the mad cyclist wrote:If anybody is interested, I built the new coop using plans found in Incubating and Brooding Chickens: www.keepingchickensnewsletter.com/BroodingChicks2.pdf

It’s a simple but very practical design.

This picture shows mine, before front netting and roofing felt.

Nicely built

Thanks Steve, it’s built out of my old bathroom floor.