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I'm getting nearer to actually moving into my smallholding ( after so many legal delays ), it's mainly open fields - a blank canvas - and as a beginner it's a bit daunting.

Would it be rude to put up a diagram and ask for some advice on layout ? I know I could attend a permaculture design course but to be frank I have trouble learning new skills now and a lot of it would be wasted on me.

I don't want to put upon the forums generosity, so an honest "you should do a course" or "we'll have a go" would be appreciated and absolutely no offence taken. I hope this doesn't appear a loaded question.

Either way, I'll document the progress as a beginners guide to others in the same position.

put up a diagram someone will likely give advice and I doubt people will mind

If you don't want to do a permaculture course, there are probably people around who could provide useful help. There's quite a bit of permaculture activity around here. I'm on the working group developing Permaculture Wales/Paramaethu Cymru, so know the people to ask.

CatW:
I know you have described your new small holding before but I have forgotten what you said about it. How small is it and what type of land and soil are you on?.
I Goggle mapped your Beulah South Wales location and it looks like a fully developed farm community with very little remaining forest outside of hedge rows and river bottom flood ways. I wonder what the locals grow on all those neatly hedged fields? Also panning to the northwest there is an area that shows just as white barrens around the Claerwen reservoir. What is that? chalk bedrock that was always barren or some example of human folly?

Catweazle wrote:I'm getting nearer to actually moving into my smallholding ( after so many legal delays ), it's mainly open fields - a blank canvas - and as a beginner it's a bit daunting.

Would it be rude to put up a diagram and ask for some advice on layout ? I know I could attend a permaculture design course but to be frank I have trouble learning new skills now and a lot of it would be wasted on me.

I don't want to put upon the forums generosity, so an honest "you should do a course" or "we'll have a go" would be appreciated and absolutely no offence taken. I hope this doesn't appear a loaded question.

Either way, I'll document the progress as a beginners guide to others in the same position.

I'd love to take a look at a plan of your plot C.

Jealous?...I'm not jealous........

You're very welcome to post your plans, I'm sure many will be happy to offer suggestions. Quite a few of us here have permaculture training, I did course with Patrick Whitefield this summer.

Catweazle, we bought a blank canvas too and this stage of the process is so important to spend loads of time planning, looking at maps and just being there. I'd love to help if I can.

Have a look at http://www.flashearth.com/ If you're lucky your place might be covered with a more recent photo than Google earth.

Also, a map something like this will help you find your contours for water management and for making decisions - this is ours and the little black rectangle on the side of the hill in the vesica piscis is where we built the house. The lower circle is zone 1 :



Here's a link for an OS map of your area :
http://www.walkingclub.org.uk/hills/sou ... -map.shtml

Thanks all, much appreciated.

I'm drawing up a plan now, with relevant details, which I'll post. I'll PM a link to BING maps to PS members, but I don't want to put it on open forum.

Thanks again.

Hopefully we can all learn something from the debate and discussion that ensues. I know I will!

Buy 'The Earth Care Manual', I think that it's only about £30 and will give you plenty to think about. I have a load of Permaculture books but think this one is the most comprehensive for the UK, perhaps in combination with Martin Crawford's forest gardening book as opposed to the one by Patrick Whitefield.

I agree that the "sitting around and noticing stuff as the seasons change" approach is the best, but of course you might want to get cracking on with the building...are you allowed to park a Static on it and live like that?

RenewableCandy wrote:I agree that the "sitting around and noticing stuff as the seasons change" approach is the best, but of course you might want to get cracking on with the building...are you allowed to park a Static on it and live like that?

It's not that blank .

It has a reasonable house, dilapidated polytunnel, dilapidated henhouse, nice new barn and small very overgrown veg patch with concrete paths between beds. The beds are very narrow though, and most of it is in a small area. I'm buying an extra 2.6 acre field behind the house which is flat and empty - all grass, and two more fields of 4 and 5 acres adjoining, slightly sloping, also to grass. Horses were kept in the fields, there is a horse-riding centre a couple of fields away ( I hope this will be a good source of manure ).

The barn was erected by a previous owner for growing cannabis in, he went to prison. It's the best building of all, no expense spared, concrete floors, transparent roof and wall panels, a nice overhang at the front, lean-to generator room, water collection from the roof etc. etc.

The "blank canvas" is really the fields, I want to get as close to food self-sufficiency as possible which means chickens, pigs, cows and their foodstuff as well as the obvious fruit and veg for ourselves.

Narrow beds are good: less backache leaning over.

I wonder if there's something tropical but legit that you could grow in the Barn? Tea, perhaps?

Catweazle wrote:

RenewableCandy wrote:I agree that the "sitting around and noticing stuff as the seasons change" approach is the best, but of course you might want to get cracking on with the building...are you allowed to park a Static on it and live like that?

It's not that blank .

It has a reasonable house, dilapidated polytunnel, dilapidated henhouse, nice new barn and small very overgrown veg patch with concrete paths between beds. The beds are very narrow though, and most of it is in a small area. I'm buying an extra 2.6 acre field behind the house which is flat and empty - all grass, and two more fields of 4 and 5 acres adjoining, slightly sloping, also to grass. Horses were kept in the fields, there is a horse-riding centre a couple of fields away ( I hope this will be a good source of manure ).

The barn was erected by a previous owner for growing cannabis in, he went to prison. It's the best building of all, no expense spared, concrete floors, transparent roof and wall panels, a nice overhang at the front, lean-to generator room, water collection from the roof etc. etc.

The "blank canvas" is really the fields, I want to get as close to food self-sufficiency as possible which means chickens, pigs, cows and their foodstuff as well as the obvious fruit and veg for ourselves.

" An acre and a half for a cow and her calf". varies of course with climate and soil. If you really want to do cows you might need most of the grass for summer pasture and hay. If you don't raise all the feed on yours then it would be cheaper to buy the milk and meat at the market. If it is a small holding then you might need to balance it with small critters.
Best wishes and have a good go at it.

RenewableCandy wrote:I wonder if there's something tropical but legit that you could grow in the Barn? Tea, perhaps?

Aubergines, peppers, melons, squash, pumpkins, tomatoes, cucumbers