Haven't given much thought to this before.
I could build one from wood and then use padlocks. I could locate it in an unused attic room.
Alternatively I could build a brick store in my garage, with a wooden door.
Anybody done this? Any thoughts on the subject?
Secure storage of preps - food etc.
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Secure storage of preps - food etc.
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emordnilap
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It's in our plans, when funds/labour/materials become sufficient. I've put enough thought into it for the time being as follows:
Basically I want to stick an extension* on the west end of the house specifically for preliminary food preparation (large sink for washing, podding, whatever) and to house a solar-powered freezer (or two!). Rainwater would be filtered into a tank for this sink.
Most importantly, though, part of this extension would be a heavily insulated, windowless but ventilated room on the north side, with access to that room only from inside the house, with a good strong deadlocked door for when we're not around.
It would be well shelved both for bulk purchases and for those garden foods that suit it, such as apples, some root veggies and preserves.
edit: *unheated.
Basically I want to stick an extension* on the west end of the house specifically for preliminary food preparation (large sink for washing, podding, whatever) and to house a solar-powered freezer (or two!). Rainwater would be filtered into a tank for this sink.
Most importantly, though, part of this extension would be a heavily insulated, windowless but ventilated room on the north side, with access to that room only from inside the house, with a good strong deadlocked door for when we're not around.
It would be well shelved both for bulk purchases and for those garden foods that suit it, such as apples, some root veggies and preserves.
edit: *unheated.
Last edited by emordnilap on 12 Aug 2010, 10:08, edited 1 time in total.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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adam2
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Security is good against everyday thieves whilst times are more or less normal, but is of less use against determined looters who may be armed and numerous.
Concealment is better against such an eventuality.
Over the years I have conclealed numerous stashes and hoards for myself and others, here are a few suggestions.
Friends had a house built to theire design, this incorporates a completly hidden store. This was not built by the builder, who would then know about it, but was added later by myself and the owner.
The design was such that without detailed measurements the missing space would not be obvious.
The room is about 1.5M by 4M and equiped with racking and storeage crates, it is walled with concrete block walls, similar to the rest of the house. Hidden doors seldom work well in practice, acces is therefore from above via a removable floor section in the room above.
It contains long life foodstuffs, lithium batteries, and various other supplies. Access twice a year for stock rotation.
In a renovated house, considerable concealed storage was provided between the downstairs ceiling and upstairs floor.
The timber joists were instaled first, 410mm apart.
Aluminium angle was screwed to the sides of the joists, near the bottom, thus allowing shallow storeage crates each 400 X 600mm to rest on the aluminium angle.
Plasterboard was fixed as normal, and the floor covered with flooring grade chipboard as is common in new construction.
Access is by unscrewing the chipboard floor above.
The stored supplies weigh about a ton, this was allowed for by useing thicker joists than would otherwise be required.
The contents are mainly tinned food.
The floor and ceiling look absolutely standard.
Petrol, parrafin, and diesel fuel may be stored out of sight, and relatively safely in a buried stainless steel beer keg. The inlet and outlet pipes being hidden in a corner of a shed etc. Use a hand pump to withdraw the fuel.
All manner of supplies may be stored under a raised wooden floor, but remember that such a space may be damp and/or attractive to vermin.
A water cistern may be installed in a loft and used for concealed storeage, remember to connect some pipes to it for realism.
A garden shed cant really be concealed but is very useful for less critical storeage. I would favour concrete block construction over wood owing to the reduced fire risk and slightly better security.
A transparent roof will admit daylight but not prying eyes, unlike windows.
If building almost anything, consider a pit under it, perhaps concealed by a manhole cover. This is a good way of stashing petrol in cans.
Concealment is better against such an eventuality.
Over the years I have conclealed numerous stashes and hoards for myself and others, here are a few suggestions.
Friends had a house built to theire design, this incorporates a completly hidden store. This was not built by the builder, who would then know about it, but was added later by myself and the owner.
The design was such that without detailed measurements the missing space would not be obvious.
The room is about 1.5M by 4M and equiped with racking and storeage crates, it is walled with concrete block walls, similar to the rest of the house. Hidden doors seldom work well in practice, acces is therefore from above via a removable floor section in the room above.
It contains long life foodstuffs, lithium batteries, and various other supplies. Access twice a year for stock rotation.
In a renovated house, considerable concealed storage was provided between the downstairs ceiling and upstairs floor.
The timber joists were instaled first, 410mm apart.
Aluminium angle was screwed to the sides of the joists, near the bottom, thus allowing shallow storeage crates each 400 X 600mm to rest on the aluminium angle.
Plasterboard was fixed as normal, and the floor covered with flooring grade chipboard as is common in new construction.
Access is by unscrewing the chipboard floor above.
The stored supplies weigh about a ton, this was allowed for by useing thicker joists than would otherwise be required.
The contents are mainly tinned food.
The floor and ceiling look absolutely standard.
Petrol, parrafin, and diesel fuel may be stored out of sight, and relatively safely in a buried stainless steel beer keg. The inlet and outlet pipes being hidden in a corner of a shed etc. Use a hand pump to withdraw the fuel.
All manner of supplies may be stored under a raised wooden floor, but remember that such a space may be damp and/or attractive to vermin.
A water cistern may be installed in a loft and used for concealed storeage, remember to connect some pipes to it for realism.
A garden shed cant really be concealed but is very useful for less critical storeage. I would favour concrete block construction over wood owing to the reduced fire risk and slightly better security.
A transparent roof will admit daylight but not prying eyes, unlike windows.
If building almost anything, consider a pit under it, perhaps concealed by a manhole cover. This is a good way of stashing petrol in cans.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
I don't think this "Mad Max" scenario will happen, however;
I think that some of you are being a bit unrealistic by planning to conceal your food and live where you are long-term.
When it's obvious that you and yours are faring better, then bad people will come.
Your hidden stash will do you no good, as soon as a thug threatens to cut your wifes nose off you'll tell them where the food is.
If you can't keep them out, and you won't be able to for long, you're finished - they won't take your excess and leave you enough to live on, they'll take everything.
Better by far to store enough at home to keep you going for a month and try to remain inconspicuous, whilst very visibly snaring rabbits and harvesting wild food wherever you can. When your area gets too hostile to live in bail out in the rescued Hilux (see earlier thread) fueled with your Diesel cache and with a gun in each seat. Head for the hills and find a remote, empty or stressed smallholding in a defensible position.
Scotland would be a good choice. I reckon the Government will be handing out what supplies are left in the cities, and lots of semi-rural dwellers will be heading for the cities. Once they're there they will stay until the food runs out and then be too weak to travel far out again.
I think that some of you are being a bit unrealistic by planning to conceal your food and live where you are long-term.
When it's obvious that you and yours are faring better, then bad people will come.
Your hidden stash will do you no good, as soon as a thug threatens to cut your wifes nose off you'll tell them where the food is.
If you can't keep them out, and you won't be able to for long, you're finished - they won't take your excess and leave you enough to live on, they'll take everything.
Better by far to store enough at home to keep you going for a month and try to remain inconspicuous, whilst very visibly snaring rabbits and harvesting wild food wherever you can. When your area gets too hostile to live in bail out in the rescued Hilux (see earlier thread) fueled with your Diesel cache and with a gun in each seat. Head for the hills and find a remote, empty or stressed smallholding in a defensible position.
Scotland would be a good choice. I reckon the Government will be handing out what supplies are left in the cities, and lots of semi-rural dwellers will be heading for the cities. Once they're there they will stay until the food runs out and then be too weak to travel far out again.
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adam2
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More concealed storage.
An internal wall was built of lightweight steel studding and covered with plasterboard, as is very common in new construction.
The wall is however thicker than normal, having about 180mm of internal free space between the two plasterboard coverings
This space is used to conceal a large stash of Mountain House dried foods and candles, and a few gold coins.
Access for use or inspection would require removal and probably destruction of the plasterboard.
The wall was designed such that all stored goods may be accesed by removal of a single complete sheet of plasterboard, 8 feet by 4 feet.
No cutting to size required if re-instatement is required.
This being chosen so that the householder may do this neatly without needing a builder or plasterer.
The very long life of the goods stored meaning that no regular access is needed.
For the very infrequent inspections needed, if BAU lasts that long, replacing a sheet of plaster board is cheap and simple.
An internal wall was built of lightweight steel studding and covered with plasterboard, as is very common in new construction.
The wall is however thicker than normal, having about 180mm of internal free space between the two plasterboard coverings
This space is used to conceal a large stash of Mountain House dried foods and candles, and a few gold coins.
Access for use or inspection would require removal and probably destruction of the plasterboard.
The wall was designed such that all stored goods may be accesed by removal of a single complete sheet of plasterboard, 8 feet by 4 feet.
No cutting to size required if re-instatement is required.
This being chosen so that the householder may do this neatly without needing a builder or plasterer.
The very long life of the goods stored meaning that no regular access is needed.
For the very infrequent inspections needed, if BAU lasts that long, replacing a sheet of plaster board is cheap and simple.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
It still needs plastering and decorating to match the rest of the wall, and this takes time and is messy. Built in book shelves, wardrobe, wood panelling, or something similar that is a fixture but can be removed, would probably be better.adam2 wrote:For the very infrequent inspections needed, if BAU lasts that long, replacing a sheet of plaster board is cheap and simple.
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adam2
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Yes you are right, but the original plastering is fairly basic so a none too good reinstment should not stand out.JohnB wrote: It still needs plastering and decorating to match the rest of the wall, and this takes time and is messy. Built in book shelves, wardrobe, wood panelling, or something similar that is a fixture but can be removed, would probably be better.
Repainting the whole wall, so that it all matches is no big deal.
Inspection after perhaps 10/15/20 years could reasonably be combined with complete re-decoration which would likely be required by then in any case.
Last edited by adam2 on 09 Mar 2013, 17:10, edited 1 time in total.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
I've been looking at the huge underground septic tanks and drainage pipes often seen around these parts. You could practically live in some of them. Another option could be to bury a shipping container suitably waterproofed with bitumen and polythene and possibly encased in concrete, accessed through a large underground water pipe fitted into the top, with a hidden entrance to the tube via man-hole hidden in a shed / outbuilding.
Local Jewsons are doing a deal, mini-digger and dumper truck for a week, £150 for the pair, and a local shipping container supplier will sell a used cor-ten ( corrosion resistant steel) 40ft container for £1400 delivered. Ready-Mix concrete is £740 per truckload.
Local Jewsons are doing a deal, mini-digger and dumper truck for a week, £150 for the pair, and a local shipping container supplier will sell a used cor-ten ( corrosion resistant steel) 40ft container for £1400 delivered. Ready-Mix concrete is £740 per truckload.
As you say Cat, I think finding a remote situation would be important in making such a move effective. In post-WW2 Japan, to use an example I am aware of, the Yakuza was much revived (after being greatly diminished by previous, profound national militarisation) by raiding farms in order to supply the starving cities with foodstuffs: grain, veg and meat of sometimes dubious provenance. A peacetime UK example of such raids by criminal gangs might be the theft of sheep and creation of 'smokies' for West African communities in urban conurbations. You would want to be sufficiently distant/hidden so as not to be a target, ie. not visible or worth predation.Catweazle wrote:Once they're there they will stay until the food runs out and then be too weak to travel far out again.
This is an interesting subject- I'm sure that over the years it has been touched upon in these fora, but consideration of historical and current events and patterns that emerge in food-stressed countries could be worth its own thread. While, of course, I hope it doesn't happen, I think that mining what must be a significant body of study into this area (we've talked about the accounts of the starving in postwar Berlin at one or more times) could be useful.
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adam2
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Agree, might be the only option in some extreme cases, but should be regarded very much as a last resort, unless you have a prepared and stocked location to bug out to.DominicJ wrote:"Bugging out" is committing suicide.
Do you know what people who leave home with a backpack are called?
Refugees
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
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featherstick
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I thought they were called "Ramblers".
If you're going to bug out, you need somewhere to go to that has been prepared. We have several options, a nearby one, and a couple further away. We could leave the country too if necessary.
This is a good site with first-hand lessons on the practicalities and realities of a forced evacuation from the home:
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/
If you're going to bug out, you need somewhere to go to that has been prepared. We have several options, a nearby one, and a couple further away. We could leave the country too if necessary.
This is a good site with first-hand lessons on the practicalities and realities of a forced evacuation from the home:
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/
"Tea's a good drink - keeps you going"
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RenewableCandy
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The Fire scenario has spurred me into action. We already have fire/fog/showering/cooking alarms (that work far too well!) and have talked about how to get out pdq. We now have a portable doc-case with crucial things in it that can easily be defenestrated. It took me all fecking afternoon, and in the process I've slung out a load of olde paperwork, thus reducing the probability of the said fire scenario.
The guy's comments about his brother-in-law(?) are truly uplifting
The guy's comments about his brother-in-law(?) are truly uplifting