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What is the Point?
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 12:13
by Unbuntu
I don't see the point of,
Living in a doomed world that will never achieve anything beyond survival and repeated failures, one that will never reach the stars. I don't see the point of living in a world of so evolved yet so ignorant and stupid beings who are killing themselves with pollution and energy wars (Iraq). What is the point of living on a world that has grown so much and is growing still and is so close to achieving something that hasn't been achieved, ever. (visiting other planets and such) only to soar into oblivion.
Sorry for all the gloom and doom, but I don't see the point of living after collapse other than to procreate and try to survive in a dead world.
I look forward to a simpler lifestyle sometimes, but what is the point of a civilisation that grows and grows and advances only to implode and force everyone to back up and live like pioneers.
Is there a positive side to this all?
Re: What is the Point?
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 12:57
by Blue Peter
Unbuntu wrote:I don't see the point of,
Living in a doomed world that will never achieve anything beyond survival and repeated failures, one that will never reach the stars. I don't see the point of living in a world of so evolved yet so ignorant and stupid beings who are killing themselves with pollution and energy wars (Iraq). What is the point of living on a world that has grown so much and is growing still and is so close to achieving something that hasn't been achieved, ever. (visiting other planets and such) only to soar into oblivion.
Sorry for all the gloom and doom, but I don't see the point of living after collapse other than to procreate and try to survive in a dead world.
I look forward to a simpler lifestyle sometimes, but what is the point of a civilisation that grows and grows and advances only to implode and force everyone to back up and live like pioneers.
Is there a positive side to this all?
I suppose that you have to ask yourself what is the purpose of humanity. That, of course, is a deep philosophical or religious question, but it certainly is not universally acknowledged that the goal of humanity is technological progress,
Peter.
Re: What is the Point?
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 13:09
by thorgal
Unbuntu wrote:I don't see the point of,
Living in a doomed world that will never achieve anything beyond survival and repeated failures, one that will never reach the stars. I don't see the point of living in a world of so evolved yet so ignorant and stupid beings who are killing themselves with pollution and energy wars (Iraq). What is the point of living on a world that has grown so much and is growing still and is so close to achieving something that hasn't been achieved, ever. (visiting other planets and such) only to soar into oblivion.
Sorry for all the gloom and doom, but I don't see the point of living after collapse other than to procreate and try to survive in a dead world.
I look forward to a simpler lifestyle sometimes, but what is the point of a civilisation that grows and grows and advances only to implode and force everyone to back up and live like pioneers.
Is there a positive side to this all?
I know it sounds tough, I sometimes share the same sort of down feelings. But on the other hand, we know little of our history, and we tend to see things from our small perspective, that is the one of a "modern human". Indeed, all of us in this forum are used to live in certain conditions (technological, but also cultural, etc) that shaped our psyche in a certain way, thus the consequent worries when we are faced with the idea that our environment (that defines us) is about to change drastically... jeeze, what a long sentence !
I think that we will slowly accept the idea that this small perpective was just an illusion created by comfort. Our "modern" times (1st major industrial revolution) is just a fleeting momoent of our history, so don't worry too much, humans will get back on track and broaden their vision of their place in the big picture when they rediscover their connection to Earth
Re: What is the Point?
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 13:15
by skeptik
Unbuntu wrote:
Is there a positive side to this all?
Yes. The Macallan 25 Year Old for a starter. I could list many others but haven't got time.
We're all going to be dead eventually, but thats not the point.
Re: What is the Point?
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 13:46
by clv101
Unbuntu wrote:...one that will never reach the stars. What is the point of living on a world that has grown so much and is growing still and is so close to achieving something that hasn't been achieved, ever. (visiting other planets and such) only to soar into oblivion.
I don't think reaching the stars or expanding civilisation beyond the solar system has ever even remotely been on the cards. Visiting other planets? Again I don't think we're anywhere near close to anything other than a token gesture like the moon landings that didn't really achieve anything. I don't see it was a failed target or objective. Our lot is, always has been and always will be (as far as it is possible to see) here on Earth, peak oil doesn't change that.
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 13:56
by Ballard
Does there need to be a reason?
I'm with skeptic, Have a nice time, leave it as you found it (more or less), be nice to people, and enjoy your four score years and ten.
Even 30 years after peak people will still be having a nice drink with some good friends.
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 14:05
by dudley
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 17:20
by DamianB
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let not this blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
Therefore, be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams; it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.
Desiderata by Max Ehrmann
Re: What is the Point?
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 20:16
by MacG
skeptik wrote:The Macallan 25 Year Old for a starter
WHAT? Macallan? Diluted chemicals at best! Shame on you! Laphroaig please. Or Bowmore. Cask strength, diluted with spring water just before tasting. Mmmm! Heaven on earth.
Re: What is the Point?
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 21:04
by skeptik
MacG wrote:skeptik wrote:The Macallan 25 Year Old for a starter
WHAT? Macallan? Diluted chemicals at best! Shame on you! Laphroaig please. Or Bowmore. Cask strength, diluted with spring water just before tasting. Mmmm! Heaven on earth.
Sorry. Cant stand Laphroaig or any of the Islay malts. Its that hint of iodine from the sea spray in the water. Like sucking Band Aids.
Just a matter of personal taste... prefer the slightly richer taste that The Macallan gets from the Sherry casks they use. Most of the Highland and Island Malts are a bit too austere for my palette.
My other car's an Armagnac Hors d'?ge.
"Life is too short to drink cheap wine"
off topic again...
No species is immortal. Why should humanity be any different? Even the universe will come to an end in a big crunch or just evaporate away to nothing eventually ( the Proton is though to have a half life). Chill and enjoy the ride.
This is not a rehersal, and there is only one performance.
Re: What is the Point?
Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 21:10
by MacG
skeptik wrote:My other car's an Armagnac Hors d'?ge
Oh dear. The word "decadence" just got a deeper touch...
Re: What is the Point?
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 08:38
by isenhand
Unbuntu wrote:
Living in a doomed world that will never achieve anything beyond survival and repeated failures,
Is it
I would not be so confident about predicting the future.
Unbuntu wrote:
one that will never reach the stars.
The stars are still far away in time and space. Lets concentrate on fixing ourselves here first before we mess up the rest of the universe. Then, when we know what we are doing down here, can we explore the stars.
Unbuntu wrote:
Sorry for all the gloom and doom, but I don't see the point of living after collapse other than to procreate and try to survive in a dead world.
Neither do I and its not certain that that will be the case anyway. That may well be a possibility but if we work on building a better future the doom and gloom scenario may well have a low probability of occurring.
Unbuntu wrote:
Is there a positive side to this all?
Yes, it gives you an opportunity to think about the kind of world you would like to live in or a world for your children and grand children. An opportunity to work for something better. Apart from the fact lots of people will suffer I am quite happy if this civilisation passes away. I think there are better ways to run a hi tech society. Ways that we could maintain a good standard of living that is in balance with the natural world. If we can do that, then we can think about exploring the stars.
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 18:12
by Andy Hunt
The Macallan 25 Year Old for a starter
I like the Tobormory malt. The malt isn't roasted, the peaty taste comes from the water they use. So it's still peaty, but very mellow.
...one that will never reach the stars.
Well, I met the members of "Queen" once. Does that count?
It's funny, I was out in my back garden the other day, looking at stuff. There was so much going on, even in my small back yard! Plants are beginning to bud, even in December. And I found a frog in my small pond. No idea where it came from, I'm miles from any standing water, although there is a river not too far away. Nature is a lot more resilient than we realise!
You can see the cosmos in a tiny drop of water if you have a microscope. The universe is infinite in all directions! Maybe it's time we started looking more into inner space as a species, before we try going out and conquering "the final frontier".
As the Zen saying goes, "don't just do something - sit there."
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 20:40
by thorgal
maybe we should look at the greatest Hubble telescope pictures once in a while (more often than not) and say that if we keep on the path we're currently following with energy consumption we have a good chance not to discover unsuspected and unexpected beauty anymore ... ah the stars! they must laugh a good deal about our stupid earthly condition, they continue "burning" hydrogen for billions of years with indifference, or as if they were teasing us and telling us with a twinkle of whatever eye they have : see how much energy we have and burn every second ? want it ? come, it's not that far ... if you can
Re: What is the Point?
Posted: 20 Dec 2005, 22:01
by Unbuntu
isenhand wrote:
Is it
I would not be so confident about predicting the future.
The future? I think that everyone knows that without availible energy (in this case oil) we are pretty much screwed. A industrial civilisation that requires constant growth can be supplied forever with a finite rescource.
When I wrote this I was somewhat depressed that we (could) be going back to the burning times for example. Xenophobia, will it be a part of post-peak life? Racism and other ignorant ideas are already a part of our society now. We have grown as a civilisation even without oil, I hope that growth isn't stopped or reversed when the collapse comes.
The only thing that can save us now it seems is the almighty knowledge of the extraterrestrial (sp?) aliens.
Now that seems like a joke, but If they can travel those distances on one tank of (insert alien fuel) they must be able to help us! That sounds crazy but I firmly believe in aliens and other paranormal events. All those stars and galaxies, there is someone out there to save us. (If they want to) Maybe the aliens believe in whole planetary euthanasia.
Patrick
