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I would like to start a thread about defending you and/or your family post-peak and post-economic meltdown.

Lets face it, people aren't going to band together (aside from the ecovilliges) they are going to turn ravenous in search of resources. when tshtf you better know how to defend your home.

I'll start:

1. get a gun or some type of projectile weapon (bow, cannon )
2. have backup weapons (swords, knifes, clubs, bats and such)
3. plan out an emergency evacuation for your home/apartment/etc.
4. get OUT of the city
5. Learn simple self defense (I would recommend Tae Kwon Do for self defense, I took it for four years and I learned a massive amount of self-defense techniques)
6. Get in shape
7. learn to bribe and negotiate with gangs/individuals
8. If you see someone or a group of people approaching your house with weapons, shoot first and ask questions later.
9. learn about medevial (mispelled?) battle techniques, because frankly we will be in the dark ages NOT the stone age (see my post about that on general discussion)
10. Don't leave your home or safe house until civil rest returns (10-15 years?)

post your ideas!


Patrick

Unbuntu wrote:I would like to start a thread about defending you and/or your family post-peak and post-economic meltdown.

Lets face it, people aren't going to band together (aside from the ecovilliges) they are going to turn ravenous in search of resources. when tshtf you better know how to defend your home.

That's a pretty serious assumption, I'd like to see a few qualifications some people may not band together, some will, I'm sure even the ecovillages will have there share of the stupid selfish and shortsighted.

Unbuntu wrote: I'll start:

1. get a gun or some type of projectile weapon (bow, cannon )
2. have backup weapons (swords, knifes, clubs, bats and such)
3. plan out an emergency evacuation for your home/apartment/etc.
4. get OUT of the city
5. Learn simple self defense (I would recommend Tae Kwon Do for self defense, I took it for four years and I learned a massive amount of self-defense techniques)
6. Get in shape
7. learn to bribe and negotiate with gangs/individuals
8. If you see someone or a group of people approaching your house with weapons, shoot first and ask questions later.
9. learn about medevial (mispelled?) battle techniques, because frankly we will be in the dark ages NOT the stone age (see my post about that on general discussion)
10. Don't leave your home or safe house until civil rest returns (10-15 years?)
post your ideas!

Regarding points 1 and 2, if you don't know how to use a weapon the most dangerous thing you can do is have one.
Point 3 is sort of covered I have doors to the front and rear and an a route through the extension loft if fire blocks the stairs, the nice man from the fire brigade will often help with this.
Point 4 - too late.
Point 5 - technique often fails whne confronted with the truly brutal, I go for
Point 6 - learn to run really fast.
Point 7 - negotiation is good, bribery just lets someone know you have money and something you value more than it. Wage negotiations are good practice.
Point 8 - you do realise means nobody who follows your advice will ever meet each other or if they do it will only be because both didn't learn how to use their weapons.
Point 9 - where did I put that seige engine, and just how much use is plate armor against a hunting rifle?
Point 10 - I may have to, there a lot of parks around me that need a gardeners attention should TSHTF, I expect to be in them with my neighbours, assuming none of them start killing each other.

IMHO we will not survive if we try and survive as individuals, one of the reasons individualism is given the hard sell is that it removes alternatives to the status quo. Nothing will change if we try to change it as individuals, only by working together forming communities, and networks of commiunities, will we actually achieve anything.

Cool post though.

I am interested in getting an air rifle too - for rabbits and birds (and I admit as a last resort as defense). Any advice?

Regarding the general concept of defense of your family and property, I have made my views known previously - it is top priority to me. But I agree that we can't live medium-long term on an individualistic basis. Communities are the answer...... My concern is that these can't realistically be created in any numbers until tshtf.

So in the short term - self defense of family and property is critical to me.

Yet again, this makes me realise the gulf that exists between where society is now to where post-peak society will end up. They are so far apart, I am afraid the changes will be simply cataclysmic, especially for the West.

No-one knows how the future's going to end up. Human beings are resourceful, we might pull through.

If you want weapons, it's easy to get hold of bows or crossbows. You could join your local friendly archery club to learn how to use your bow too.

http://www.quicks.com/
http://www.archeryworld.co.uk/ (they sell a good looking crossbow too)

bigjim wrote:No-one knows how the future's going to end up. Human beings are resourceful, we might pull through.

I am 100% sure that somewhere some group of people will survive, anybody who says we will all die because of a resource we DONT really need (but are addicted too) are f*cking idoits. The only way we will all die is if a nuke hits the stockpile of 50,000 active nukes in Russia, resulting in armageddon. (I saw that theory on the history channel or something)

Another way we all might perish is if the climate changes so rapidly that we are thrown into an ice age, BUT EVEN THEN there will be people that will survive.

If a nuke hits New York and people resort to living in the sewers and mutating into horrible montrosities, WE WILL STILL SURVIVE.

I watch too much sci-fi.

People will survive, but they might resort to killing each other to do that.

BTW maybe I didn't state the format of the posting, I posted 10 items, then you think of something and post a couple items, then the next person list a few more! WOW!


Pat

Unbuntu wrote: 6. Get in shape

just going back to this, when i first started making my PO plans, i thought just getting fit would be enough. but having spent the last few months on the garden, i would say being fit isn't enough, you need to be strong. i hired a rotivator(sp?!) a few weeks back to help with digging over the back garden and i'd lost the use of my arms by the end of the day, the damn thing was dragging me round the garden!
needless to say i learnt my lesson and joined a gym soon after!
______ADVERT DELETED

<< Lets face it, people aren't going to band together (aside from the ecovilliges) they are going to turn ravenous in search of resources. when tshtf you better know how to defend your home. >>

Are they? People have managed to band together before oil and I?m sure they will do it again after oil. Safety is in numbers and the most secure defence is to band together. What you describe is a more a decent in to chaos that occurs in a very rapid collapse before people band together and such chaos last for a short time. It is possible that things could descend in to chaos and violence erupts but I think the best thing to do to prevent such a state is to form networks now (which is what I have been doing).

Just to add to that, there are a number of faults with you defence anyway, even for a chaotic situation. Firstly, it is geared up for a small one person or at most a handful of people, which wont work against a large crowed (which is what you are more likely to face if you have something others desperately need). Also small arms are not much good against larger weapons, which will also be available in a chaotic sudden collapse.


<< I think projectile weapons are out of the question for most people here Unbuntu as we're in the uk.>>

You can always make your own. A Sten gun for example, is relatively easy to make.

isenhand wrote:People have managed to band together before oil and I?m sure they will do it again after oil.

Yes I understand that after a couple years or decades that peace will come back and we will basically be living in the 18th or 17th century or maybe the middle ages! (I hope not!) What I'm saying is, the first few years will be bad. Very bad. Different countries will react in different ways, I'm sorry to say but it seems that most of the poor countries will cease to exist because of hunger and disease. But some people in Europe still live in the 17th century, or at least I have heard!

Countries that are more in tune with the old days will thrive, countries that are lazy and oil-addicted and spoiled brats will suffer. But we wont all die, I'm sorrybut it would take alot to kill 6.5 billion people

just remember: 90% of people are scared brainless and selfish, sadly they might be the ones to survive the catastrophes by stepping on other peoples fingers. (metaphorically)


Patrick

Unbuntu wrote: What I'm saying is, the first few years will be bad. Very bad.

I doubt it. I doubt people will even notice. We may already have passed peak. Maybe. Maybe not.

Peak oil does not mean instant catastrophe IMHO. It means a plateauing of liquid hydrocarbon output, probably a decade(s) long spikey plateau as we 'bump along the top' through a series of recessions and recoveries. Global oil output dropped year on year for 4 years at the start of the 80's (see the small squiggle on the left side of the ASPO logo) and the world didnt come to an end . Why should PO be any different?

Lets discuss it in ten years time, we should have a better handle on it by then. Apart from that, what's really important is the peak of all fossil energy, not Peak Oil. The Germans did ok on coal to oil technologies during WW2, I expect the world will too over the next fifty years or so, in combination with a number of other technologies, some of which haven't even been invented yet - not that I'm relying on currently non-existent processes, but neccessity is the mother of invention, and technological progress doesnt look like stopping anytime soon.

Or maybe you look forward to SHTF? Personally, I dont. I like modern dentistry with fast acting anaesthetics, Swiss chocolate and the Internet.... amongst other things...

I think I'll stick with my Oyster card (thats my preparation, as well as getting rid of my car) and skip the guns and crossbows. After recent events in London, Transport Police take a dim view of that kind of stuff on the Northern Line.

Unbuntu wrote:8. If you see someone or a group of people approaching your house with weapons, shoot first and ask questions later.

Nah - put the kettle on and invite them in for a nice cup of tea. If you help a man when he's down, he'll remember it forever. If you try and fight everyone, sooner or later you'll lose.

<<What I'm saying is, the first few years will be bad. Very bad.>>

I doubt it too.

I still say your best bet is to start organising groups now. That doesn?t mean buying up land and rushing of the countryside now it can be as simple as forming ?future clubs?, just to start networking and discuss the future. Maybe later that will mean buying up land but it could also mean growing things in your garden and permaculture in parks in the city. Doing so will mitigate any possibility of a violent collapse. Even if the groups are only small and the majority just ignore PO etc.

Admin: content deleted at posters request.

When I wrote this I was in a strange mood, now that I look back I think that I would "invite them in for tea" like someone sugessted. But If I saw someone or even more, a group coming towards me with weapons, I would be wary. Wouldn't you? Of somebody points a weapon at you what are you going to do? Maybe the best offense is a good defense.

Before we all start having a go at Unbuntu for his stance I think it's worth bearing in mind that the US is a gun-obsessed country with an almost exclusively right-wing media that constantly promulgates a message of fear, where you're 4 times more likely to get murdered than in the UK.

Who knows, if I was brought up over there, maybe I'd be all like "Yeeha! Pass me a Bud, Cleetus! I'm gonna shoot me a looter!"

Joe wrote:"Yeeha! Pass me a Bud, Cleetus! I'm gonna shoot me a looter!"

Be carerful when you stereotype the people from my region. We are not like that, we wear shoes, go to school, and yes amazingly are smart NORMAL people.

"Give me a can of petrol and we'll run to my flat and fix the old torch, remember take the lift" <----STEROTYPE

Sorry couldn't resist.

But all kidding aside, yes, most americans are !by god! gun baring, god loving sons of bitches!


Pat

First relax, this is not the end of the world. This will be a serious culling of the herd. The mindless sheep of the world are about to meet the butcher.
The trick in survival is to avoid being rounded up with herd. The end for the sheep will come fairly quickly within 2 months even the gangs will be gone and the state has not got a clue, but stay away from the state it will get mean. What you need is a hide. [something like a root cellar] Dig your hide so when finished it will be level with the ground, fairly in the open don't put it in your house for it may be burnt or in the barn since looters will search it for every grain of corn. Your hide needs to be large enough for your stuff [ wind turbines, food, arms, books, seed]. Have it ready and when the culling comes hide. In a few months put up your wind turbines and plant your seed after of course you have found your new dream home.

And Yes Americans love our guns, in places where most everyone is armed it is very peaceful and thiefs are very snicky[ best way to avoid being shot and feed to the fish].