I'm preparing for a total breakdown...

bobthebaker · Post by **bobthebaker** » 01 Dec 2007, 14:23

Is the post typed before/during/after the long hours in bed with Mrs Adair?

I am of course, jealous of your lifestyle along wiith SunnyJim's "simplicity is the key to happiness" outlook. Unfortunately Mrs B is the total opposite but I am working on it

Erik · Post by **Erik** » 01 Dec 2007, 14:47

WolfattheDoor wrote:I should point out in my defence that I had a tooth extracted last week and it is the party conference season so I have good reason to be depressed.

I had a tooth pulled out yesterday (part of my PO preparations!) and know now what you meant by this post! Still, that's one less tooth that could end up being pulled out without anaesthetic in 20 years time...

Roger Adair wrote:Some time ago Mr E asked how do others cope with PO and a future that looks to have more chance of getting very bleak as opposed to very promising? These are some I find that work for me.
[...]

Good post. We have got to keep living and enjoying our lives as we see fit. Can't be dooming all day long every day. That's the theory anyway.

... right, now where's that Heinberg book I was reading? Oh and I must phone that old school pal of mine to let him know that the world is about to end, oh and must speak to my broker on Monday (more gold), and stash another 500 euros cash behind the plant pots, oh and finish building the er "bear trap" next to the front foor, and buy a crossbow and bury another crate of baked beans out in the local park, and put in a bid for that wind-up gizmo I saw on eBay, and, and...

rabbit_hop · Post by **rabbit_hop** » 01 Dec 2007, 17:27

Hi all - been reading these forums more or less daily for about a year now, although I'm an infrequent contributor. For what it's worth, I find myself oscillating between hope for the future and despair. Sometimes I can be cautiously hopeful that PO, whenever it does hit and the effects start to become more visible, won't cause the end of civilisation and Max Max situations playing out in the streets; at other times, such as in recent weeks when oil came within spitting distance of $100, I worry about a sudden crisis in energy and finance, the fact that I'm not really ready yet, and the inevitable massive social dislocation that would result from a collapse - particularly now that some sections of the MSM are starting to prick their ears up and actually use the "P" word. I think even one or two of the red-tops have at least given the subject a few column millimetres, in between the usual features "Another Talentless Singer We're Inexplicably Reporting On" and "Buy Whatever Your Television Tells You To Buy". And yet - from time to time there is this residual nagging suspicion that we might, just might, be mistaken, and that the crunch time genuinely won't be until 2075 or whenever... States of mind that probably resonate with many posters on this board.

I found myself in Woolworth's the other day while waiting for a bus, and the shelves were stacked to the ceiling in readiness for the Christmas onslaught with all manner of imported toys and games, the Cheap Plastic Crap From China that we're not going to be buying for much longer. It was a Thursday, late(r)-opening night here in Edinburgh, and the place was almost empty, with a few punters picking up their Evening News and 100g of pick'n'mix. Certainly hardly anyone paying much attention to the aforementioned CPCFC - the poorly-made dolls (what are they called again? "Brats"?) sheltered behind brightly coloured cardboard and clear moulded plastic outers, the 1/12 scale toy cars that will do well to be still in one piece by New Year, the new generation of Lego sets whose parts will - crucially - only combine to make one model; and I found myself thinking:

"What a bloody waste of resources."

And

"This will all be over very soon."

Perhaps I was just in a doomerish mood that Thursday evening; but I had this ineluctable sensation that the machine was, at least in some small measure, beginning to stop. Those glistering arrays of elaborately-packaged CPCFC, with few, if any takers, left me with a most curious impression: that of a civilisation that had exhausted itself. It just seemed so ... "over"; this is the past, and we are going to have to leave this if we are to have any future worthy of the name. Has anyone else had a similar experience of late?

With Yule / Christmas in mind, as it happens, I've asked my family and friends not to get me anything beyond a card and maybe something they've made themselves, like cakes - luckily I've got good cooks for friends! The best present they could give me is to respect my wishes. (Although if they're very eager to be parted from their hardly-won cash, a bottle of Laphroaig 15 year old would not be turned down.)

bobthebaker · Post by **bobthebaker** » 01 Dec 2007, 19:06

Yes Rabbit, Xmas is the time when all the useless, energy consuming tat comes to the surface and I get thoroughly depressed with it all. All it is an orgy of shallow consumerism, hopefully within 10 years most of it will have disappeared from the shelves. This will be one of good points of PO!

Meanwhile I've trained all the relatives and family to get things I want, it's taken 10 years to get there but they've cottoned on at last. It actually saves a lot of aggro, I give them all a couple of options and even which shops/websites to go to!

Post by **mikepepler** » 01 Dec 2007, 21:23

rabbit_hop wrote:Perhaps I was just in a doomerish mood that Thursday evening; but I had this ineluctable sensation that the machine was, at least in some small measure, beginning to stop. [snip] It just seemed so ... "over"; this is the past, and we are going to have to leave this if we are to have any future worthy of the name. Has anyone else had a similar experience of late?

I know just what you mean. Maybe it's a like a chicken still running around with its head cut off, not realising that it really ought to lay down and die?

I agree on Christmas - we don't have any tree, decorations or lights and don't send any cards. We do give/receive presents, but only ones that are useful in the post-peak world, and take the opportunity to meet up with family. The only remotely christmassy thing we do is sing carols at church, but that's just cos we're going there anyway and it's what people happen to be singing... I'd pack the whole Christmas thing in if it was my choice. In fact, most of this "christmas holiday" we'll be in the wood working our butts off to get as much coppice cut as possible before going back to our other jobs.

Tracy P · Post by **Tracy P** » 01 Dec 2007, 21:43

YEAH! Mike, lets cancel Christmas!

Oh, well, I guess neither of us is brave enough to tell our mums.....

Maybe we will cancel it next year!

Post by **mikepepler** » 01 Dec 2007, 21:47

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 02 Dec 2007, 18:08

I went to the bank in Newbury on Friday evening and the town centre was packed with people. I hadn't realised it was time to turn on the town decorations and Christmas Tree lights on. The place was full of happy people there just to see the ceremony and there was a great sense of community. It was about people wanting to see something pretty and seasonal (if a bit early) but it really lifted my spirits.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 02 Dec 2007, 20:09

kenneal wrote:I went to the bank in Newbury on Friday evening and the town centre was packed with people. I hadn't realised it was time to turn on the town decorations and Christmas Tree lights on. The place was full of happy people there just to see the ceremony and there was a great sense of community. It was about people wanting to see something pretty and seasonal (if a bit early) but it really lifted my spirits.

Midwinter Fire Festivals of various types were there long before cheap fuel (probably meant a lot more then, too

) and will probably continue long after, at least this far North (our Aussie neigbours are wondering how we cope with the concept of "4 o'clock in the evening"). Yeah bring on the lights, heavy food, mulled wine, days off work, rels etc. Just substitute useful kit for the usual cheap plastic tat. If your rels won't believe you on the useful-kit front, say you've taken up Camping

MisterE · Post by **MisterE** » 02 Dec 2007, 20:11

kenneal wrote:I went to the bank in Newbury on Friday evening and the town centre was packed with people. I hadn't realised it was time to turn on the town decorations and Christmas Tree lights on. The place was full of happy people there just to see the ceremony and there was a great sense of community. It was about people wanting to see something pretty and seasonal (if a bit early) but it really lifted my spirits.

Bloody brilliant. Its like that around here. Also people need to remember that most of the people you know, all get the crimbo material nonsense thrown at them all year in adverts and god knows what else, they dont want it - a great gift yes, be it a ps3 or a chess set - but tonnes and tonnes of plastic crap, adverts and banners everywhere, millions of products to choose from. Most people are praying to buy just one that is high quality and will do the job, have a nice dinner with family, see friends get together with folk in the community and have some time off work. Blame the marketing clowns and companys, not the people.

EG

You want an LCD TV 22' - ok people go find me 1. Oh but there are 100's to choose from, now find one with a specific spec, good built quality, and a proper warranty say 3yrs onsite - back to square one and you may find one - my point is people who may want such an item, should have access to one or two damn fine, well made, will last items and not 100's of poor ones, that will get returned, end up on dumps, wont look good or give them the pleasure their hard earned money deserved - now which one is more a drain on our world energy bank? All that crap should not be made, just what we need ie 1 or 2 excellent models and that should be repeated with every product in the world. Who is the cause, do you know anyone at all who says they want all this choice of rubbish? I dont. This is why people have to spend so much time at xmas sifting through rubbish just to get a few nice gifts for people you love to say thanks for everything this year. Plus the quicker that is done the more time us working class have to spend doing the important stuff, having fun with those around us. In all honesty folks, in times of hardship it will probably be the only traditon left in the country that will bring some happiness for one day, be it gifts, turning on lights, singing or drinking mad max hooch made by slasher bob in number 27 down in his nuke shelter

As someone who works hard all year for my family and friends, christmas really lifts my spirits and its not the gifts, I never have anything, its the day and the following week with my family and mates, and seeing people around the streets happy - try as they may the marketers can not take that from us

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 13 Dec 2007, 21:35

Rabbit Hop said:-

?It just seemed so ... "over"; this is the past, and we are going to have to leave this if we are to have any future worthy of the name. Has anyone else had a similar experience of late??

Beyond Lies the Wub!

I get this feeling every time I visit our nearest town, Letterkenny (pop approx 20,000), which is in severe development overshoot and becoming more and more of a strange twilight zone of absurdly mad hopes, dreams, and raging Hunter Thompsonesque fear and loathing by the day. The newest part of the town is the most truly bizarre, just.

A Marks and Sparks, Dunnes Stores, Halfords, B&Q, Sony Store, Currys and a rake of fancy goods, mobile phone and upmarket (expensive) interior decorating/luxury bathroom + hot tub shops have sprung up like mushrooms in the last few months. They are tastefully complemented by two expensive and snotty yuppie eateries, a lot of empty offices, allegedly ?luxury? (but tacky looking) sub family size apartments and of course the obligatory pedestrian unfriendly gyratory interchange accessed football pitch and a half sized car park with XXL SUV size parking spaces.

You walk around the place and pass next to no people and the shops are spookily underpopulated with paying punters. Thousands of people roaring past and in and out of the car park but god only knows where they are coming from, where they are going to, what they are doing and how they are financing it. It would be perfect for a film set for the next movie based on any Phillip Dick novel. It looks and feels like a ?parallel universe? largely populated by alien replicants with limited self propelling abilities.

I estimate the town already has at least twice as many shops, hairdressers, estate agents, pubs, garages, car dealerships and financial institutions as it needs, 30-40% of the commercial developments are not let, 25% of flats and houses are empty. Despite only having one bus that provides an erratic ?mystery tour? town service it also seems to have twice as many taxis as it needs.

They are still roaring ahead building more and more like there is no tomorrow!

What did I just say? This must be what peak everything looks and feels like.

It has emerged that a load of houses in one development are ?owned? by a bent solicitor in Dublin who has scammed millions of Euro in a multiple mortgage fraud, (that the banks still cannot quantify!) and who has now gone on the run!

As capitalism and human ingenuity are so amazing can anybody answer me why they must keep delivering so much useless unsustainable
crap along with the 15 year old fine malt whiskeys of course...........

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 13 Dec 2007, 22:07

I was about to ask "Do you think the whole thing's a money-laundering racket?" when I got to the bit about the bent solicitor...I think I've stumbled on an explanation for your surreal shopping centre there.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 13 Dec 2007, 22:37

RenewableCandy wrote:I was about to ask "Do you think the whole thing's a money-laundering racket?" when I got to the bit about the bent solicitor...I think I've stumbled on an explanation for your surreal shopping centre there.

Yep Rencan

I think that when the definitive work on the role of naked greed, criminality and fraud in the great 21st century ecological disater is written Ireland, the UK and the USA will provide some very revealling and at least 23 very illuminating case studies.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 14 Dec 2007, 00:16

Great descriptions from Rabbit and Roger.

This time of year is crazy. People are rushing about everywhere. There are queues everywhere. Being courteous on the roads becomes extinct - nobody lets anybody out. Loads of people are shooting the red lights.

I went to the post office today and there was a queue much longer than normal. I did my business and as I passed down the queue, you could see the impatience and frustration in everybody's faces. We are all battling time.

Except it is all starting to amuse me. It make me grin and smile.

Increasingly I am feeling like they are all in a parallel universe to the one I am in. I think it springs from knowing that it is all really rather superfluous. I am simply not getting bothered about all this kak any more. I still do the Xmas stuff (to pass myself), but it just doesn't phase me - I just grin at everybody - a few smile back - they are usually the older ones and I think I see a knowing look in their eyes. Either that or I am really starting to lose it.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 14 Dec 2007, 11:20

Roger: my nearest town is Ennis in Clare and fits your description quite well. The number of empty properties, be they commercial or private, is staggering. Yet building and planning applications proceed apace.

Add in obesity and petrolheads, Saturday night violence and cheap flights to New York for shopping for all-year spice.