Interesting comments here about land ownership. My family have always owned land - not huge areas I admit - & my OH and our offspring live on our own 25 acres.
My folks never complained about others walking across fields when I was young and we continue to have that attitude here. Admittedly we don't invite unknown others on either (I wonder about 3rd party insurance once you start to invite others over your land).
Yet land ownership is not all bad even if the right to "own" space is dubious - certainly I always was brought up with the impression that ownership was a priviledge to be lived up to. And that owners were stewards of the land for future generations.
I honestly believe that owners (with the attitudes I was taught) will care for land much more carefully because they own it than a community (with no-one really in sole charge and everybody wanting different things from it) might.
Orchard Farm
Moderator: Peak Moderation
All sorts of things could happen to property in the future - it could be invaded by squirrels, trampled by dog-walking neighbours, stripped bare by fuel-hungry locals, or simply repossessed by TPTB (using whatever draconian laws they may "have to" introduce in a post-PO world).
But in the meantime I think the more land that ends up in the hands of PO-aware people, the better: much as we all might feel uncomfortable with the idea of land ownership, I'm sure that both Vortex and the Peplers will be doing worthwhile and sustainable things with "their" land, however different their approaches may be. Good luck to both of you!
But in the meantime I think the more land that ends up in the hands of PO-aware people, the better: much as we all might feel uncomfortable with the idea of land ownership, I'm sure that both Vortex and the Peplers will be doing worthwhile and sustainable things with "their" land, however different their approaches may be. Good luck to both of you!
Yep, and you have me re-visiting all the woodland websites looking for some land againmikepepler wrote:I also agree - it would be better if nobody owned land individually, and it was all held in common for the common good. But while we're waiting for that to happen, we have to work with the current system, which meant buying a patch of it. We're hoping to open it up for community events though, like school visits, etc. Might be good for kids to see a working woodland!
Also, the other reason we bought some land is that we inherited some money, but weren't interested in a mortgage, so couldn't buy a house (it wasn't *that* much money!), but didn't want to leave it in the bank to be eaten by inflation. As we weren't into buying gold, etc. we thought "why not buy some woodland, which we can enjoy right now, and might be useful in years to come too." And so here we are...
Yeah . . . me too. Not much up this neck of the woods though.Tess wrote:Yep, and you have me re-visiting all the woodland websites looking for some land againmikepepler wrote:I also agree - it would be better if nobody owned land individually, and it was all held in common for the common good. But while we're waiting for that to happen, we have to work with the current system, which meant buying a patch of it. We're hoping to open it up for community events though, like school visits, etc. Might be good for kids to see a working woodland!
Also, the other reason we bought some land is that we inherited some money, but weren't interested in a mortgage, so couldn't buy a house (it wasn't *that* much money!), but didn't want to leave it in the bank to be eaten by inflation. As we weren't into buying gold, etc. we thought "why not buy some woodland, which we can enjoy right now, and might be useful in years to come too." And so here we are...
Where did you find out about your woodland Mike? Are there any resources you can recommend for anyone looking?
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
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mikepepler
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http://woodlands.co.uk/Andy Hunt wrote:Yeah . . . me too. Not much up this neck of the woods though.Tess wrote: Yep, and you have me re-visiting all the woodland websites looking for some land again
Where did you find out about your woodland Mike? Are there any resources you can recommend for anyone looking?
http://www.woods4sale.co.uk/
http://www.johnclegg.co.uk/property_for_sale.asp
http://www.wildlife-woodlands.co.uk/woo ... r-sale.htm
http://www.woodland-sale.com/woodlandsforsale.html
http://www.apnaland.com/off-market-land-for-sale.html
We bought from woodlands.co.uk, who do fixed-price sales, so once you express an interest, it's yours - no chance of being "gazumped".
John Clegg has a lot, but don't be fooled by the "guide price" - it's an informal auction, and the price could end being much higher, even double. On the other hand, you might get a bargain...
Thanks Mike, that's great! 
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
I think we should be carefull not to bid against each other. I think alot of Peak Oilers are running around trying to buy stuff up at the mo. Land, woods etc etc. After the Glastonbury goes green day and the 400 people hearing about PO land prices in this area have at least doubled! I have been kicking myself really hard ever since. I knew about it all first, but sat on my laurels.... now I'm paying the price.
There's a lot of difference between the 'hobby' or 'amenity' woodlands (eg 5 acres for ?30k) and the working forestry areas (eg 150 acres for ?150k).
What companies like woodlands.co.uk seem to do is buy the 150 acre lots in salubrious locations that can be broken down into smaller plots manageable by individuals and families, and sell them at a big juicy profit (?1k per acre suddenly becomes 4, 5, 6 or 7k per acre!).
I find myself wondering whether a number of us would be better off purchasing a larger chunk of woodland as a group and then splitting it apart ourselves. It'd be a great shared learning experience and we'd then have allies around our land. And the price of our 'piece' would go up too.
Or am I missing something?
What companies like woodlands.co.uk seem to do is buy the 150 acre lots in salubrious locations that can be broken down into smaller plots manageable by individuals and families, and sell them at a big juicy profit (?1k per acre suddenly becomes 4, 5, 6 or 7k per acre!).
I find myself wondering whether a number of us would be better off purchasing a larger chunk of woodland as a group and then splitting it apart ourselves. It'd be a great shared learning experience and we'd then have allies around our land. And the price of our 'piece' would go up too.
Or am I missing something?
You're dead right Tess, the problem though is where? You would need a collection of people all living in the same geographical area really. Not much point in my owning a piece of woodland in Essex or somewhere!Tess wrote:I find myself wondering whether a number of us would be better off purchasing a larger chunk of woodland as a group and then splitting it apart ourselves. It'd be a great shared learning experience and we'd then have allies around our land. And the price of our 'piece' would go up too.
Or am I missing something?
There doesn't seem to be much in my part of the world generally. Nearest to me is North Wales, and that's still a good 2 hours drive each way at least.
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
The forestry commission do sell off big bits of land, keep an eye on their site - although most is in scotland
you can also buy land and get grants for making it into a woodland.
yes, I agree, buying a small piece of a big bit, kind of ruins the big bit, but then again, we could not afford the big bit!
oh and when houses crash and other people have to sell their woodland next to us to pay mortgage etc, we will swooooop!
you can also buy land and get grants for making it into a woodland.
yes, I agree, buying a small piece of a big bit, kind of ruins the big bit, but then again, we could not afford the big bit!
oh and when houses crash and other people have to sell their woodland next to us to pay mortgage etc, we will swooooop!
Orchard farm Update:
We have been a bit lax so far - but now have some sheep ready to go on the land.
My wife is setting up our land with the hope that we will be up and running by the end of this Summer.
We already have a .4 acre growing area prepared.
We have had a fair bit of fencing work done, a hard-stand put down, ditches dredged, the access track re-graded and a 'test pond/well' excavated.
We had to upgrade the light perimeter fence to improve security - although the flipping deer can jump it! So if you fence some land do it properly the FIRST time!
I'm installing a microwave link, cameras, alarms etc on the land whilst my wife plans the growing etc.
I've got most of the kit now, and I'm having a tall telegraph pole erected on the crest of the hill so that the radio link can 'see' my office a mile away.
I hope to set up a DGPS system to aid planting etc.
I have an RFID radio tag system plus GSM dialler to alert us via voice telephone message if any of the sheep or expensive tools are removed from their correct positions.
My wife is setting up an inner stock holding zone with strong stock fences.
(These use barbed wire - we didn't want to make the external fence this tough for public liability reasons)
We are getting a single ISO container (not three!) as soon as the land is sun-baked enough not to swallow a Hi-Ab transporter!
For safety, I will be fitting the container with a CB rig so my wife won't feel too isolated whilst I am at work.
We have been a bit lax so far - but now have some sheep ready to go on the land.
My wife is setting up our land with the hope that we will be up and running by the end of this Summer.
We already have a .4 acre growing area prepared.
We have had a fair bit of fencing work done, a hard-stand put down, ditches dredged, the access track re-graded and a 'test pond/well' excavated.
We had to upgrade the light perimeter fence to improve security - although the flipping deer can jump it! So if you fence some land do it properly the FIRST time!
I'm installing a microwave link, cameras, alarms etc on the land whilst my wife plans the growing etc.
I've got most of the kit now, and I'm having a tall telegraph pole erected on the crest of the hill so that the radio link can 'see' my office a mile away.
I hope to set up a DGPS system to aid planting etc.
I have an RFID radio tag system plus GSM dialler to alert us via voice telephone message if any of the sheep or expensive tools are removed from their correct positions.
My wife is setting up an inner stock holding zone with strong stock fences.
(These use barbed wire - we didn't want to make the external fence this tough for public liability reasons)
We are getting a single ISO container (not three!) as soon as the land is sun-baked enough not to swallow a Hi-Ab transporter!
For safety, I will be fitting the container with a CB rig so my wife won't feel too isolated whilst I am at work.
Re: Orchard Farm
It's not; in fact it's incredibly easy:Vortex wrote:Getting an elevation profile for the land along the planned radio links is by far the trickiest task. It would be OK if I had a single link path to assess ... but I have several options for each link, which leads to a LOT of work.
http://www.atdi.uk.com/online/
Olduvai Theory (Updated) (Reviewed)
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
This is brilliant! Although I have to smile at all the male technostuff you are putting in place. 
It's funny my OH and I have that divide too. I garden and do animals while he does the technostuff like wind turbines, solar panels and experiments with wood-gas burning. We're less security minded than you, but then we've been here 18 years with low security and so far so good. Perhaps we need to upgrade in that area.......
It's funny my OH and I have that divide too. I garden and do animals while he does the technostuff like wind turbines, solar panels and experiments with wood-gas burning. We're less security minded than you, but then we've been here 18 years with low security and so far so good. Perhaps we need to upgrade in that area.......