What guns to buy? and related posts.

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

It is sad, I think, that RGR and VT live in a country where they feel afraid and require to have arms to protect themselves.

There is that idea again. Having been raised as a sheeple, it must seem strange, other folks being allowed to make their own choices when it comes to personal safety. Sheeple are supposed to think that way, dial up the bobby, follow their trained instincts to run, hide, cower in a corner somewhere.

Your government needs to be congratulated on having accomplished what governments the world over desire...a docile population, happily willing to be knifed for the greater good, following their programming exactly as expected.

Owning a gun because we are afraid...please. I grew up feeding my family with a gun starting at the age of 12 until I went away to college. Which relates to Little John's point I believe.

In the UK and a lot of Europe we just don't have that fear. It is a much better way to live that is possible because there are very few arms about and it is very difficult to get hold of them.

Your government in Brussels is undoubtedly endlessly congratulating themselves on achieving sheeple nirvana! Good for them, and good for you, accepting your conditioning so thoroughly.

I have guns for hunting but they are locked away safely and if we did have an intruder I would probably not be able to get them out before the intruder got to me so my immediate reaction would be to grab a large kitchen knife or the cleaver we have in a kitchen drawer. But that is not something that I often think about or have to think about. And thank god and gun control for that.

Look at this! Not only have you been conditioned to not believe that all the knife murders of security guards and single moms isn't that big of a deal, but that happily fighting them in your own home on equal terms is a acceptable alternative!

Sorry KL. It isn't about being afraid. It is about having more choices in how to go about handling the situation you describe in a manner invisible to you because of your social conditioning.

Yup..Americans have guns, and some people obviously use them in ways that they should not. Just as I've already provided examples where they use them to help others and prevent harm to others, hell Americans even do it unarmed for the citizens of the EU..we just can't help ourselves.

What is the sheeple's answer to helping stop someone who is harming others? A stern glance? A furrowed brow? An American has more alternatives in how they answer that question is all.

[kenneal - lagger]

I think that you are the conditioned one, RGR. You are so conditioned that you can't accept the possibility that a whole nation isn't bothered about being armed and in fact are quite happy that most people aren't armed. Even our police force are quite happy that they don't have to carry arms and have to call out the armed bobby if they want armed protection.

I never worry about knife crime when I am out and I doubt that anyone does in the UK. Worry about knife crime is an inner city gangland worry for young adult and teenage boys mainly. And if they were able to carry guns they would carry guns. Then instead of being knifed they would be shot and a few passers by as well. The ability to carry guns would just up the killing rate and lead to the odd massacre or two as you have in the US.

I don't worry about intruders either and an intruder armed with a gun is a once in ten lifetimes possibility.

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

I think that you are the conditioned one, RGR.

Alternatively, it is a matter of perspective, and we both have been conditioned by our culture and society.

You are so conditioned that you can't accept the possibility that a whole nation isn't bothered about being armed and in fact are quite happy that most people aren't armed.

You presume. Of course I can accept the possibility that an entire state has decided to disarm its citizens because it is in the best interest of the state. Of course it is not just possible, but a certainty as you demonstrate, that said citizens will happily participate in this system.

This isn't even a stretch, as here in America we have people trying to apply the same kinds of conditioning to large swaths of geography, hoping to create their own happy sheeple. This experiment in America tends to conflict with some of the basic instincts detailed by Mr. Little "Bullshitter" John, and then we get some turbulence right at that juncture.

Even our police force are quite happy that they don't have to carry arms and have to call out the armed bobby if they want armed protection.

Yes, exactly my point, all the sheeple should be happy, that is the point of creating them in the first place! Police, citizen, barkeeps and drunks, the conditioning of the sheeple is independent of profession. Hell, if it didn't work that way, it wouldn't work at all.

I never worry about knife crime when I am out and I doubt that anyone does in the UK.

So? I don't worry about knife crime or gun crime when I am out either, including in large and occasionally non-sheeple like metropolitan areas like Denver.

I don't worry about intruders either and an intruder armed with a gun is a once in ten lifetimes possibility.

I don't worry about intruders regardless of their weapons or intent.

[vtsnowedin]

It is sad, I think, that RGR and VT live in a country where they feel afraid and require to have arms to protect themselves. In the UK and a lot of Europe we just don't have that fear. It is a much better way to live that is possible because there are very few arms about and it is very difficult to get hold of them.

I have guns for hunting but they are locked away safely and if we did have an intruder I would probably not be able to get them out before the intruder got to me so my immediate reaction would be to grab a large kitchen knife or the cleaver we have in a kitchen drawer. But that is not something that I often think about or have to think about. And thank god and gun control for that.

If you think I am afraid you are much mistaken. To realize that threats both present and future exists does not invoke fear just the prudent preparation to counter the possible threat.
That you think you are safer in the long run without any firearms in private hands ,you are not a student of history ,and have taken your indoctrination better then most.

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

It is sad, I think, that RGR and VT live in a country where they feel afraid and require to have arms to protect themselves. In the UK and a lot of Europe we just don't have that fear. It is a much better way to live that is possible because there are very few arms about and it is very difficult to get hold of them.

I have guns for hunting but they are locked away safely and if we did have an intruder I would probably not be able to get them out before the intruder got to me so my immediate reaction would be to grab a large kitchen knife or the cleaver we have in a kitchen drawer. But that is not something that I often think about or have to think about. And thank god and gun control for that.

If you think I am afraid you are much mistaken.

I beat you to noticing that one. It would appear that one of the characteristics of conditioning people to accept their fate so thoroughly that they don't even mind being deprived of the ability to defend themselves without the blessing of the state is to teach them that those who dare to even think otherwise must be afraid. An amusing switcharoo, myself I wonder if it a British thing or a Brussels thing. Could be both I suppose.

To realize that threats both present and future exists does not invoke fear just the prudent preparation to counter the possible threat.

Nope. You are just SCARED! Fraidy cat! Time to sell the guns and just strategically plant some steak knives around the house!

That you think you are safer in the long run without any firearms in private hands ,you are not a student of history ,and have taken your indoctrination better then most.

Indeed. But he has given me a decent idea about strategically planting steak knives around the house as backup to the pistol/shotgun/assault rifle combo's I prefer! I do this out of sheer raging fear of course, I am at this instant cowering in the corner crying over not having those steak knives in stock to hide under the couch cushions already!

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

Look! Californians decided to go old school with knives, like the Brits!

Who would have thunk it? California still has access to firearms, and decides to do its mayhem like Brussels requires!

[kenneal - lagger]

You are the ones with the guns and we, without the guns, haven't had your 2000 plus mass shootings in the last few years. No guns or mass shootings every week? I think we'll take no guns and continue with "our indoctrination" thank you!!

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

You are the ones with the guns and we, without the guns, haven't had your 2000 plus mass shootings in the last few years.

No one is disputing the talking points, or even the stats, used to sell the sheeple on the need for completely depending on their government for something as critical as their personal safety. Dare the sheeple be given the right to protect themselves, they might realize that they need to protect themselves from far more than the knife wielding attackers killing innocents like mom of one and security guard who otherwise might have chosen to protect themselves and lived, if given the choice.

You aren't given the choice. Americans are. And yes, there are consequences within the social fabric of the cultures we live in. Yup..someone occasionally picks up a gun and shoots folks in Walmart. Just as folks use a gun to stop those folks, as I've referenced and you are OH SO pointedly ignoring. Doesn't fit the conditioning you are immersed in very well, does it? A proactive citizenry, not conditioned to happily play ring around the kitchen table with an intruder in a fencing duel with steak knives, doesn't sit still for that kind of nonsense. Doesn't even consider the THOUGHT of that being rational. The very scenario you mentioned is proof that your government has lost the ability to defend you at exactly that point in time, and now you are expected to suffer the consequences of having been neutered by your benign overlords. You even laid this scenario out! Just because you happily buy into this scenario by your own admission proves the entire point.

And what do YOU know of living in a country where these shootings happen? You act as though these things are happening to people every time they walk out the door? I live in a town with 2 of the more famous ones, and it doesn't even cross my mind. My kids went to the schools in the district where one of the original ones happened, and they were no more concerned about it happening again than I was. Quite the opposite in fact, the liberal wave that crashed onto the schools demanding politically correct behavior and reactions afterwards was amazing.

No guns or mass shootings every week? I think we'll take no guns and continue with "our indoctrination" thank you!!

EXACTLY!!!! No need to be ashamed of what you have been told is good for you, just go with it and be happy. After all, it is exactly as your government in Brussels wants it to be. By now, maybe even your Queen!

[kenneal - lagger]

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

KL, thank you providing a wonderfully reliable foil demonstrating the Brussels way of thinking about this one topic.

I wish the world could be as we all might hope, rather than what it actually is. I am glad that you are satisfied with your system. I hope you understand that it isn't the only one available in an imperfect world, and just as you are comfortable in yours, we are comfortable in ours.

In my experience, fear and the proper use of a firearm are about as far apart as two things can get, but I do understand that somewhere, someone acquired one as a safety blanket of some sort. Sort of like a talisman, if they just wave it at someone like they do in the movies, the bad men will all run away. About as ignorant as it gets, but in the land of the free and home of the brave, people are free to think, and even attempt, silly things like that.

I'm a big fan of proper training myself.

[vtsnowedin]

You are the ones with the guns and we, without the guns, haven't had your 2000 plus mass shootings in the last few years. No guns or mass shootings every week? I think we'll take no guns and continue with "our indoctrination" thank you!!

2000 mass shootings? Where did you get that number?
In actuality there have been 89 mass shootings in the last twenty (not a few) years.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... full-data/
Now 89 shootings over twenty years, of three or more people, is a grim statistic when you compare it to drug overdose deaths or highway fatalities caused by texting while driving , or drunk driving fatalities, or abortions of innocent babies,or deaths from tobacco use over the same period in a country of 333 million people which one should we be upset about and changing laws over?
And Ken if you want to debate the issue please stick to the facts.

[Little John]

From what I have gleaned, in the US 1/4 of people own guns and 1/6 of people are designated as mentally ill.

Based on the above, we can estimate that roughly 1/4*1/6=1/24 of the US population, or roughly 13,721,926 people, aren't mentally fit enough to own a gun and need to have their guns confiscated and roughly 41,165,779 need to be prevented from acquiring them.

Unless, of course, it turns out that mentally ill people are significantly more likely to own guns, in which case the first number could be a lot higher and the second number lower by the same amount.

That's just arithmetic folks, plus the concept that mentally ill people shouldn't have access to firearms.

As I have already said, earlier, the problem with guns in America is not guns. It is Americans. Or, rather the extraordinary number of them who are mentally ill for all of the reasons I have previously outlined

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

You are the ones with the guns and we, without the guns, haven't had your 2000 plus mass shootings in the last few years. No guns or mass shootings every week? I think we'll take no guns and continue with "our indoctrination" thank you!!

2000 mass shootings? Where did you get that number?
In actuality there have been 89 mass shootings in the last twenty (not a few) years.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... full-data/
Now 89 shootings over twenty years, of three or more people, is a grim statistic when you compare it to drug overdose deaths or highway fatalities caused by texting while driving , or drunk driving fatalities, or abortions of innocent babies,or deaths from tobacco use over the same period in a country of 333 million people which one should we be upset about and changing laws over?
And Ken if you want to debate the issue please stick to the facts.

As a peak oiler on a peak oil website, that has never been a requirement before. Why start now?

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

From what I have gleaned, in the US 1/4 of people own guns and 1/6 of people are designated as mentally ill.

Reference please Little John. Or are you just bullshitting again? I have gleaned that 100% of UK conspiracy enthusiasts are nutters.

Based on the above, we can estimate that roughly 1/4*1/6=1/24 of the US population, or roughly 13,721,926 people, aren't mentally fit enough to own a gun and need to have their guns confiscated and roughly 41,165,779 need to be prevented from acquiring them.

So now we extrapolate bullshit into make believe.

X number of conspiracy enthusiasts in the UK X 100% means...more make believe numbers like Little Johns!

That's just arithmetic folks, plus the concept that mentally ill people shouldn't have access to firearms.

Arithmetic sure. After the initial bullshit part. And it proves you as a conspiracy enthusiast are a nutter. Who does arithmetic. Maybe, I haven't checked your numbers.

As I have already said, earlier, the problem with guns in America is not guns. It is Americans. Or, rather the extraordinary number of them who are mentally ill for all of the reasons I have previously outlined

Sure you might have said it, but you being a bullshitter, you can't expect anyone to take you seriously.

And this is all off topic LJ. How about we stick to the topic! What kinds of firearms are you a fan of, use, or want to buy? Or is your conditioning as solid as kenneal-laggers?

[Little John]

US population as of 2019

329,346,237 in total

https://www.worldometers.info/world-pop ... opulation/

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US mental illness rate:

18.9% of all U.S. adults. Which is more than the 1/6 of adults I had found in my initial research. So, we can be reasonably sure that it is at least 1/6 of all adults. However, I'm happy to still go with my more conservative figure of 1/6 of all adults.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statist ... art_154785

-------------------------

Number of Americans who have access to a gun

36.3% of people. Which is more than my initial figure of 1/4 of the population. But, that is because I was only basing it on statistics of direct ownership. In terms of access, the number is more than a third. However, I am happy to go with my initial, more conservative figure of 1/4.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_owner ... _ownership

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I'll leave you to work out the rest of the arithmetic....